cant get s3 trio 64 v2/dx working on more than 4 bits and 640x480
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Something's wrong. My Linux is on an S3 Trio 64 and my distro wanted to run it at something ridiculous I didn't think it could handle. I turned it down to 800x600/16-bits. That was the only part of the install I changed and I maybe should have tried the 1024x768 or whatever it was.
I don't know how Slack works and I do know screwing with your monitor can be dangerous but maybe you could just insist you want something better. My install gave me truckload of video parameters to chose from, so just say you've got an 800x600 16-bit situation. Pick generic SVGA, maybe?
Hopefully somebody else could give you more precise instructions but I just wanted to tell you it's definitely possible.
I don't have my S3 Trio 64 system anymore, but I do have a S3 Trio 32 VLB in an old '486.
It ran version 4.2.0 just fine except I did had to put a "DefaultDepth 16" in the top section of the "screen" section of the XF86Config file after I ran the autoconfiguring "XFree86 -configure" command, and moved the new config file to the proper place. With this system, I chose to drag the old version 3.x S3 server out of the "pasture" directory from Slackware and use it instead. It gave me better performance, especially since that old S3 card can't do most of the advanced stuff that Xfree86 version 4.x can do anyway and the older server has a smaller memory footprint as well. You'll either have to manually configure the config file for version 3.x or install one of the vintage configuration tools from somewhere to make it work. Anyway, If I got this antiquated thing to work, Yours should work too.
I also have version 4.2.0 running on an S3 Virge DX on another computer just fine.
According to xfree86.org, the S3 Trio64V2 should work unless you have a strange RAMDAC. If you card wasn't considered an exotic card in its day, it probably just uses the S3 RAMDAC. What happens when you try to use the S3 driver in 4.2.0? Maybe post some of your /var/log/XFree86.log.0 after attempting it and maybe we can help you figure it out. Also try the command (I think this is the correct syntax) "startx -- -bpp 16" to see if you actually just need that "DefaultDepth" option installed as I did above.
Let me know if you still need help. All this Xfree86 stuff is still quite a mess IMHO.
hello,
I have S3 Trio64V2/DX card with 2048 Kbytes memory and have problems with X configuration
Unfortunately, my monitor is too old and of some strange make (Multiscan... but definitely not Sony), so I don't know it's exact vertical and horizontal refresh rates. Is it possible to configure X without those values?
My next question is regarding mouse. I use usual serial mouse. When I first run XF86Setup, mouse moved without any problems across window of configuration. Then I switched to keyboard configuration and when I clicked "apply" PC froze. I restarted it and when I entered XF86Setup again, mouse was dead. Neither of protocols work. Seems like I lost mouse.
BTW: My linux is Slackware 7.1
Oh, and I forgat to ask: could you explain what RAMDAC is and should I point it for my card? X86free.org's site says that in XFree86 3.3.6 (which comes with Slack 7.1) S3 Trio64 cards do not need RAMDAC and clock specs.
IS there any program which could determine my monitor's Vertical and horizontal refresh rates under Windows 95?
Originally posted by fuelinux I have S3 Trio64V2/DX card with 2048 Kbytes memory and have problems with X configuration
Unfortunately, my monitor is too old and of some strange make (Multiscan... but definitely not Sony), so I don't know it's exact vertical and horizontal refresh rates. Is it possible to configure X without those values?
Yes. You can guess some reasonable setting for your monitor. Using that XF86Setup program, try "High Frequency SVGA 1024x768@60hz". If the display comes up unsynced or the display makes a loud whine, then do a ctrl-alt-backspace immediately and try the next previous setting on the list ("Extended Super VGA ...") and so on until you find one that the monitor likes.
With that much memory, you can do about 1024x768 at 16 bit color max.
I'm not sure about that RAMDAC. I can't believe that vintage of card would only have only 8 bit color. I think what they are saying is that there is 8 bits per color (or 24 bits total), but the graphics engine only uses 6 bits per color. If you want more than 8 bit color, make sure you set the 16bpp button in the Modeselection section on the XF86Setup program.
Quote:
My next question is regarding mouse. I use usual serial mouse. When I first run XF86Setup, mouse moved without any problems across window of configuration. Then I switched to keyboard configuration and when I clicked "apply" PC froze. I restarted it and when I entered XF86Setup again, mouse was dead. Neither of protocols work. Seems like I lost mouse.
You are probably a victim of these config programs that don't work always. I often have to edit the /etc/XF86Config (as I think Slack 71 puts it, or the symlink to it at /etc/X11/XF86Config which is where it really goes) and put in those VertSync and HorzRefresh values myself, then set the correct values for the mouse as well. More than likely you need the "Device" set to either "/dev/ttyS0" or "/dev/ttyS1" depending on which serial port you're on, then Protocol set as "Microsoft" unless you have a strange mouse. The first screen of the XF86Setup program tells you how to navigate around with the keyboard until you get the mouse working. Once you confuse your mouse, you usually have to exit the program and start it up again to reset it
Quote:
BTW: My linux is Slackware 7.1
Oldie, but goody. I'm assuming you have old hardware like an early Pentium or earlier system if you are running such an old system. I personally found you can run newer versions on old hardware as long as you DON'T try to run memory hungry things like KDE, Mozilla, Gnome, etc. The older versions of this stuff that is on Slack 7.1 is better for machines with less than 64 MB of memory.
Quote:
Oh, and I forgat to ask: could you explain what RAMDAC is and should I point it for my card? X86free.org's site says that in XFree86 3.3.6 (which comes with Slack 7.1) S3 Trio64 cards do not need RAMDAC and clock specs.
IS there any program which could determine my monitor's Vertical and horizontal refresh rates under Windows 95?
RAMDAC is the thing in the video card that generates the voltage levels for each color pixel as it is scanned across the screen. Unless you know you have an exotic one on that card (you probably don't) just leave everything as default and the Xserver should know what to do. I think the Trio had one build in, which is probably the one in use. Make sure that you are using the XF86_S3 driver (make sure the /usr/X11R6/bin/X is symlinked to XF86_S3). That XF86Setup program should do all this for you, but who knows.
As far as Win95, you might try to find some fancy S3 drivers to replace the Win95 default ones. This should give you extra tabs in the display properties that will let you set specific refresh rates (as well as the usual resolutions), just so you'll know what it can do. You won't get the max HorzSync rate from this unless you want to do some math. Once you get X running, you can t play with the Sync & Refresh settings and the xvidtune program to tweak your display's performance to optimum.
First of all thank you for reply.
I'll try it as soon as I get home.
My system is
Pentiom MMX 200 MHz
RAM 96 MB
Video S3 Trio64V2/DX with 2 MB Memory
Serial mouse with 2 buttons connected to COM1 port (at least windows says so)
I'm amazed but seems like I've made X work. I'm getting into GNOME desktop (with 640x400 resolution) when I run startx. I even can navigate through it's start menu and some programs using keyboard. But mouse is still dead. Here is the "pointer" section in my /etc/XF86Config file ( I guess that's what X server uses). Since I'm not sure my monitor can handle 1024x768@60hz mode, I won't try it
(never mind the date thing. my clock is all messed up ) So I guess /dev/mouse points to the correct serial port ( at least Windows says my mouse is connected to COM1 which is ttyS0 under linux). Should I type /dev/ttyS0 explicitly under "devise" in XF86Config file?
BTW, could you tell me how to copy all those files in order to post them just as they appear in linux? when I do cp somefile /fat (my fat partition on linux drive) and open them under windows with notepad, they are messed and do not appear as neatly as they do under in vi editor linux
For instance, I'm posting the output of X -showconfig command:
XFree86 version 3.3.6 / X Window System
(protocol version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6300)
<then comes "if version is old visit www.xfree86.org ... I omited it>
Operating System: Linux 2.2.13 i686 [ELF]
Configured drivers
S3: accelerated server for S3 graphics adaptors (Patchlevel 0)
newmmio, mmio_928, s3_generic
As regards to simlink between XF86_S3 and X. I think I can't set the simbolic link...
When I run
So I guess /dev/mouse points to the correct serial port ( at least Windows says my mouse is connected to COM1 which is ttyS0 under linux). Should I type /dev/ttyS0 explicitly under "devise" in XF86Config file?
Are you sure Windows says you are connected to Com1? Maybe try ttyS1 just in case. If I remember it will autodetect a mouse on either Com1 or 2 and not tell you about it. You don't have to explicitly put in ttyS0 of "mouse" points to it anyway, but you can if you want. Another thing to try is to attempt to get "gpm" to work in the console mode. It might give you a clue about what is going on.
Quote:
BTW, could you tell me how to copy all those files in order to post them just as they appear in linux? when I do cp somefile /fat (my fat partition on linux drive) and open them under windows with notepad, they are messed and do not appear as neatly as they do under in vi editor linux
Text files in Unix/Linux do not have an ASCII Carriage Return character appened with the Line Feed as they do in the MS world. You can run them through a filter if you like, but I found that if you just open them up in Wordpad/Write instead of notepad, everything is automatically fixed. The tab spacing will probably still be different however.
Quote:
As regards to simlink between XF86_S3 and X. I think I can't set the simbolic link...
When I run
ln -sf /usr/X11R6/bin/XF86_S3 /usr/X11R6/bin/X
and then check it with
ls -l /usr/X11R6/bin/X
it doesn't point to XF86_S3
Perhaps that is the reason of my dead mouse?
No, the mouse is a separate issue. You don't get any kind of error message when you try to link X? Like maybe you don't have permission (don't have root privileges, etc) or maybe XF86_S3 does exist? What is X pointed to: "XF86_SVGA"? (Which also works with many S3 cards, just not as well). I seemed to remember that some version of Slackware had "X" linked somewhere in /var as well (anyone else remember this situation?).
I'm assuming you don't have a special mouse. Does Win95 use just the default Microsoft mouse driver? Did you say it worked before you set it in the XF86Setup program? Maybe go back to the XF86Setup defaults, save it before you go any further, then look at the XF86Config file for clues.
BTW, 96 megs of ram is probably enough to run a newer distribution. It might be marginal running KDE an GNOME which are quite bloated these days. I am currently running a newly upgraded Slack 9.1 on a Pent-100 with only 48 megs of RAM. I never even installed KDE, GNOME (can't even figure out how, using swaret, but that's on a different thread) or Mozilla on this system, but it runs just fine using fluxbox for the window manager and either dillo or opera as the web browser. I also stayed with the earlier Ver 3.x Xfree86, since the video card wouldn't benefit much from Ver 4.x which is more bloated as well. That said, Slack 7.1 was a great Slack however.
I think I finally made my video card to work. I can load any of the installed desktop environments with no trouble. But I'm stuck into that dumb mouse problem anyways. When I solve the mouse problem i'll dig into changing modes and resolutions of screen
The reason why i asume my mouse is connected to COM1 port is, that there is a modem on COM4 port. I guess one can use only two ports COM1 & COM3 AND COM2 & COM4. Wouldn't there be a conflict if I connect mouse and modem to, let's say, COM1 and COm3? Modem is connected to COM4 for sure. Windows shows that in modem properties dialog.
As regards to simlink between X and XF86_S3, I just checked and it's present. XF86_S# is installed for sure. I can see it in /usr/X11R6/bin/ directory and running
ls -l /usr/X11R6/bin/X
gives me
/usr/X11R6/bin/X -> /usr/X11R6/bin/XF86_S3
Is /etc/XF86Config the only file that is used by X window for configuration? Seems like i'm leaving mouse part in some other files incorrect and that is the reason for my mouse to act so weird.
When I run XF86Setup, mouse is frozen even thoufg "microsoft" protocol is already selected. I have to reselect "auto", hit "a" to apply and then choose "microsoft" and apply. Then mouse pointer moves across the Setup screen. When I click "Done", it skips to the next screen and offers me to save configuration in /etc/XF86Config, and on that screen the mouse is DEAD again. So I have to navigate through buttons using the keyboard. ... weird ... When I save and exit to look at /etc/XF86Config, that files shows that mouse settings are set correctly
wooohoooo!!!!!!!!!!
i've made it. mouse works. all i did was that i uninstalled gpm package and mouse works just fine. but strange thing is that GNOME no longer load so i use KDE
i can't get 800x600 resolution though. i try to set it in XF86Setup, but when i select 800x600, i'm getting following error msg:
Originally posted by fuelinux wooohoooo!!!!!!!!!!
i've made it. mouse works. all i did was that i uninstalled gpm package and mouse works just fine. but strange thing is that GNOME no longer load so i use KDE
Sounds like you had gpm configured wrong. XFree checks with gpm to get clues to how to set up your mouse. Maybe Gnome expects gpm to be there for some reason? I don't know, I haven't kept up with Gnome lately.
Quote:
i can't get 800x600 resolution though. i try to set it in XF86Setup, but when i select 800x600, i'm getting following error msg:
i get that message even when i try to select 640x480 with bpp 8
i think i'll have to have some workaround with it.
Well it *should* work. I would look at settings in your /etc/XF86Config file, specifically the monitor "HorzSync" and "VertRefresh" settings, perhaps increasing the upper ranges of them if you dare. You can also examine the error output as you've hinted upon below.
Quote:
{B}pity thing is that i can't read man pages. for example, man XFree86 gives me following
Formatting page, please wait ...
sh: /usr/bin/groff: No such file or directory
sh: /usr/bin/gtbl: No such file or directory
Lines ? - ?/? (END)[/B]
This is what happens in Slackware when you don't install mostly the whole distribution and aren't sure about dependencies (and why I've been using a lot of Debian lately). Basically you should have allowed these packages to be installed because "man" is dependant on them. I also have had a tough time when I attempt to strip down Slackware. You can go hunt down the missing packages (look in FILELIST) and install them. More seasoned Slackers might suggest a better way.
Quote:
/edit
could u tell me where slack 7.1 stores error log file for XFree? i've searched for XFree86.0.log but couldn't find it
The older version of X you are running doesn't produce a log like this (at least not by default as far as I know). Instead it simply writes everything out to the standard error output. You can make your own log file by doing something like "X 2> XFree86.log" then Ctrl-Alt-BKSPing out of the simple server, then going back and looking at the file you created. There might also be a command line switch to export a log file as well.
Quote:
// edit
my monitor works just fine with resolution 800x600 under windows 95. so i assume it's capable tp work in linux as well
Yes it should, so don't give up. Xfree, especially the older one, can be real hard to set up sometimes.
thank you for your replies.
i can imagine i takes lots of patience to teach us newbies the abc of linux
i'll post my XF85Config file as soon as i get home. i do think it's monitors fault that i can't get 800x600 resolution.
Originally posted by fuelinux thank you for your replies.
i can imagine i takes lots of patience to teach us newbies the abc of linux
i'll post my XF85Config file as soon as i get home. i do think it's monitors fault that i can't get 800x600 resolution.
Setting up X has traditionally been one of the more difficult things to do. The newer XFree (ver 4.x) autodetects things better but is still far from friendly. For me, I had to spend a lot of time learning about XFree86 before I felt I could quickly get X running on most any given hardware. Then I moved on to the complicated mess of X-session managers and Window managers (gdm, xdm, kdm, xinit, xsession, various window managers, etc.), which I still haven't got totally figured out. Fortunately with Slackware, this stuff is much simpler than with other distro's.
You are probably right about the monitor. It is probably too old to send it's configuration parameters to the computer so that X can autoconfigure to them. So you have to set these parameters yourself unless you can get the XF86Setup program to do it well enough for you. Your current parameters probably are too constrained to allow for higher resolutions. You can figure this out by looking at the error-log and noting all the "Not using default mode ... [some parameter] out of range" messages. Many should be out of range, but perhaps some shouldn't. To really fine tune things, you can use the "xvidtune" program within X to tweak your video in real time then when you find something that works well, you can have it print out a "modeline" which you can enter into your XF86Config file. See things like "man XF86Config" for more info if you haven't already.
here is my XF86Config file:
***********************
# XF86Config auto-generated by XF86Setup
#
# Copyright (c) 1996 by The XFree86 Project, Inc.
#
# Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a
# copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"),
# to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation
# the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense,
# and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the
# Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
#
# The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
# all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
#
# THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
# IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
# FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL
# THE XFREE86 PROJECT BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY,
# WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF
# OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE
# SOFTWARE.
#
# Except as contained in this notice, the name of the XFree86 Project shall
# not be used in advertising or otherwise to promote the sale, use or other
# dealings in this Software without prior written authorization from the
# XFree86 Project.
#
# See 'man XF86Config' for info on the format of this file
Section "Device"
Identifier "Primary Card"
VendorName "Unknown"
BoardName "S3 Trio64V2/DX (generic)"
# Use Option "nolinear" if the server doesn't start up correctly
# (this avoids the linear framebuffer probe). If that fails try
# option "nomemaccess".
#
# Refer to /usr/X11R6/lib/doc/README.S3, and the XF86_S3 man page.
also i figured out that my monitor can handle 60Hz VertRefresh for sure. I have played with my S3 refresh under windows (S3's driver allows that), not sure about HorizRefresh though. when I set it to 800x600 resolution in XF86Setup, it removes that mode automatically. Since I'm not familiar with manually entering specifications, I haven't played with xf86config yet.
Okay, the HorzSYnc and VertRefresh are very conservative, but should work I think. I would try broadening them up a little though, maybe try "31.5-36.0" and "55-62". The reason is that often video cards can not exactly match these values for various resolution settings. For example, it is possible that the closest it can get to 60hz is 61hz, which the display wouldn't notice much difference but is out of the window of your current settings. After you get everything working, you might want to play a little and see just what your display can do. For example I have flourescent lights in my room and running 60hz refresh rates with them on cause lots of visual flicker and gives me a headache.
Also, after you get things working, you can use that xvidtune program to tweak everything, then enter the modeline under the 640x480 so that it will use this instead of the standard "VESA" timings.
You only have 640x480 turned on! (In the XF86Setup program, you should have been able to push multiple buttons and selected both 640x480 as well as 800x600. You can just enter this yourself:
Modes "800x600" "640x480"
This will make X come up in 800x600 first if it can, then if you want (or need to because your display can't handle it) you can do a Ctrl-Alt-[plus or minus on the numeric keypad] to toggle between them. You may wish to edit the other color depth entries as well in case you ever want to use them for some reason.
It look like you got the "DefaultColorDepth" entry correctly set for 16 bit, this is something that often goes wrong when using those X setup programs.
also i figured out that my monitor can handle 60Hz VertRefresh for sure. I have played with my S3 refresh under windows (S3's driver allows that), not sure about HorizRefresh though. when I set it to 800x600 resolution in XF86Setup, it removes that mode automatically. Since I'm not familiar with manually entering specifications, I haven't played with xf86config yet.
the problem is that, when i push 800x600 and 640x480 resolutions in XF86Setup, X server removes 800x600 automatically.
as for more than 60Hz of vertrefresh. when I played with it under windows and set it to 72Hz, monitor got crazy lol. I had to set it back to "optimal", that equals to 60Hz.
I think my monitor handles 24 Depth as well.
thanks for reply. you help me a lot
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