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Old 06-16-2013, 05:00 AM   #16
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerflag View Post
Your suggestions are ideal but cost almost $200 more than what I ended up spending. I'm not so broke that I need a bottom-of-the-barrel system, but I'm not rich, either. An extra $200 would cancel out any savings that underclocking/undervolting would give me on the electricity bill.
A lot of that $200 would be on the CPU. The heatsink I suggested isnt cheap, but its very good and easier than sodding around with buying quiet fans (and by teh time you buy a quiet fan, the pirce differences are much lower)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerflag View Post
Core i3 3225 - has decent HD-4000 graphics for futureproofing and only cost ~$15 more than similar processors with HD-2500 or less. Only 55W. Idling without my graphics card will trim off about 25 watts.
Hd4000 isnt going to much, if any more 'future proof' than HD, HD2000, HD2500 or HD3000. They are very similar, more similar than (for example) nVidia XXXX series cards. I know plently of people who paid a lot more for a 'better' 'more future proof' video card, but once they get a bit old the differences are low.

There isnt much differnce (for non gamers) between an older 'top of the line' video cards, 'mainstream' video cards and 'budget' video cards after a few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerflag View Post
MSI H77MA-G43 mATX motherboard - it has military-grade components which might be just hype, but hopefully means it isn't garbage. This benchmark comparison showed it has decently low power consumption. Having Directron test it before shipping it.
Not really 'hype' so much as 'marketing'.

IIRC uk.hardware.info is very pro-MSI. I dont totally believe that review you linked, its rather dodgy IMO (no mention of how they tested power consumption, a few other details are kind of odd as well)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerflag View Post
MASSCOOL 8W2002F1M4 90mm HSF - from what I read, the stock cooler only gets loud at full-load high temps. I don't usually do anything that would cause that. This is pretty much a drop-in replacement for the stock cooler, but with a copper core so it should be more efficient.

It's a downdraft design like my current cooler, which also has a copper core and is dead silent. It's larger than my current cooler but not too large. Widely spaced fins don't have as much surface area as a lot of thin fins closely spaced, but it gets really dusty here and wide-spaced fins work better between cleanings. If it turns out to be noisy, it's cheap enough that I won't cry about replacing it.
I can see why you got that CPU and motherboard, even if I dont really agree. But this? Why?

I have seen a coupe of masscool heatsinks, they have always been cheap and nasty. I wouldnt assume that a copper base (or core, btu this one just has a copper base) heatsink will be better than stock. Hard to find the figures for stock intel heatsinks, since they change them now and again and a lot of tests/reviews dont even give you a pic of the stock heatsink. I'd guess that the masscool heatsink will have a louder, faster fan than the stock cooler at load, and possible atidle as well.

If its got widely spaced fins, it could well end up being worse than the stock cooler if the stock coler has more thinner fins. Dust can be an issue, that is why getting a case with airfilters is a good idea, or even adding airfilters to the case if you dont mind doing some modding.

I would have spend a bit more, and got a heatpipe tower cooler. They might look complicated, they arent really, and these days tend to be better than the blow down heatsinks (which in most cases you dont want if you are even thinking about passive cooling and/or trying to limit the number/volume/speed of fans)

Last edited by cascade9; 06-16-2013 at 05:03 AM.
 
Old 06-17-2013, 12:01 AM   #17
tigerflag
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OK, I just ordered a Cooler Master Hyper TX3 heatsink-fan; it's "only" 139mm tall. I'd love a Noctua but just can't afford it.

Why did I buy the Masscool? Because most coolers are either too loud, too tall to fit in my case (I measured), or just too big in general for my taste. I wanted something that would easily fit and wouldn't overhang or intrude on the RAM slots. I read that it worked well with the i3-3225 so figured it was worth a try.

The Masscool is similar to what I've been using (which has worked very well for me), with a better fin design. It uses metal screws instead of plastic pushpins. If the fan is garbage I could probably replace it with a better one. For purely psychological reasons the familiarity of its design fits my comfort zone. I'm just not in a phase of life where I'm feeling particularly experimental. My tiny adventuresomeness got used up just switching from AMD to Intel ;-)

But I'll give the TX3 a try, if for no other reason than because I have a lot of respect for your opinion. No doubt it's a better cooler than the Masscool.

Thanks again.

Last edited by tigerflag; 06-17-2013 at 12:03 AM.
 
Old 06-21-2013, 04:08 AM   #18
ajohn
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Although this thread is solved might be worth adding a note.

Ever since one distro downloaded and installed an nvidia driver for an nvidia graphics card I just happened to have in my machine I have stuck with them. Now it's a case of downloading and installing the linux driver from Nvidia's site. Initially I just install the distro which uses the open source driver and then I run nvidia's software. It's a pretty painless process. One install took some time as the distro install couldn't spot what monitor I was using because of the lead I had used on it. Once I had sorted that out manually with the OS driver I installed nvidia's stuff. It's performance is significantly higher than the os driver.

I'm preparing a new machine at the moment after using this one for about 7 years. Was tempted towards an nvidia nv300 but couldn't find out what twin monitor lead it would come with off ebay so bought a new nvidia ???? silent. Disliking fan noise these are what I generally use. The new machine came with windoze 7 because I couldn't get it without it. Under that their tests give it a graphics rating of 5 and a 3d rating of 6.2. That is with 8gb of ram in the machine and threading turned off - didn't know that at the time. I bought the 1gb card even though I'm not too clear if anything I use will make any use of that.

Machine wise I tend to build them up with the intention of using them for a long time. This machine with a core 2 6700 2.6gig is fine but in need of more ram than it will hold now and the power supply bust recently indicating that something else might fail sooner or later. It's ok performance wise because it runs PCI-X 64bit scssi Raid 5 and a 10k systems disc on a workstation motherboard. I also use another 10k disc for swap. I like raptors. Had nothing but good experiences with them. I run some heavy os photo processing software and some optical design and analysis packages on it under wine as there are no os/linux ones available. Ultra 320 scsi needs to go now as there aren't any pci-x boards about any more. Replacement discs are a problem as well now and as they need to match. 3 usually have to be bought if done on the cheap. ;-) Not happened yet and they are over 7 years old.

John
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Old 06-21-2013, 07:33 AM   #19
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerflag View Post
OK, I just ordered a Cooler Master Hyper TX3 heatsink-fan; it's "only" 139mm tall. I'd love a Noctua but just can't afford it.
That should be fairly quiet at low fan RPMs, and should keep the i3 cool even limited to low speed fan use.

That noctua was is a 'top of the middle range' heatasink. They do make cheaper ones with 92mm fans, but they would probably be overly expensive for you as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerflag View Post
The Masscool is similar to what I've been using (which has worked very well for me), with a better fin design. It uses metal screws instead of plastic pushpins. If the fan is garbage I could probably replace it with a better one.
Why do you think its got a better fin design?

Replacing the fan could be fiddly and a PITA, that masscool heatsinkuse a 90mm fan, not the standard 92mm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohn View Post
Ever since one distro downloaded and installed an nvidia driver for an nvidia graphics card I just happened to have in my machine I have stuck with them. Now it's a case of downloading and installing the linux driver from Nvidia's site.
In most5 case I'sd suggest using the nVidiad drivers in the distros repos over manually d/ling and installing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohn View Post
Was tempted towards an nvidia nv300 but couldn't find out what twin monitor lead it would come with off ebay so bought a new nvidia ???? silent.
Dotn buy quardo cards if you dotn use 3Dstudio max, maya, or similar software. They are slower than the normal Geforce cards, and more expensive.

I think you mean NVS 300. Which uses the same GPU found in G205, G210, G305 'bottom of the line' geforce video cards.
 
Old 06-21-2013, 08:13 AM   #20
ajohn
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My latest card for a new machine is a Nvidia GT610 by Asus. As far as I am aware there isn't always and up to date specific NVIDIA driver in an opensuse repo. There are reams and reams of info on installing nvidia cards but much of it is way out of date.

My biggest problem when installing 11.4 was the lead to the display. It didn't allow the set up to determine what monitor it was so I had to edit the x windows config myself and add the resolutions manually. That was a Geforce 210 initially using the OS driver.

I found the best info on using and installing Nvidia's own linux driver was on their website. They also list the cards it currently covers. That seems to be all of them or very nearly so. I don't do any gaming so my needs are modest. There was a huge improvement in this general area over the OS driver going one bench mark tests though and no problems at all with KDE desktop effects. The cpu is a dual core, about 7 years old now.

I do a fair amount of raw camera file image processing which tempted me towards the NV300 for my new machine but I've had no problems with the 210 and a viewsonic monitor but had to calibrate it using argll and the gui to go with it. The need for calibration in my view was the monitor not the card. It usual is with most monitors other than maybe factory calibrated Dell's and similar.

John
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:30 AM   #21
tigerflag
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
Why do you think its got a better fin design?
Here's the cooler I'm using now. It was cheap, silent, and very effective. It might not have worked well for gamers and overclockers, but I don't do that. It's too bad it was discontinued, as a lot of people were as fond of it as I am:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103167

Compare with the Masscool. Similar boxy downdraft cooler, but the fins being in an open X pattern seem like they would dissipate heat better:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835150121

Comparing them side by side, the copper slug in my old Coolermaster is much larger- 1-5/8" diameter vs only 1" diameter in the Masscool. But the Masscool has a 90mm fan compared to the Coolermaster at only 80mm.

Holding it, the Masscool seems well made for what it is: a cheap, basic replacement for a stock cooler. I like that it has metal screws. But you're right about the fan being a non-standard size.

The TX3 definitely has more fin area than either of the others. I'm going to try it first.

Planning on putting everything together this weekend. Hoping for a nice, easy build where everything just works...
 
Old 06-22-2013, 03:37 AM   #22
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerflag View Post
Here's the cooler I'm using now. It was cheap, silent, and very effective. It might not have worked well for gamers and overclockers, but I don't do that. It's too bad it was discontinued, as a lot of people were as fond of it as I am:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103167

Compare with the Masscool. Similar boxy downdraft cooler, but the fins being in an open X pattern seem like they would dissipate heat better:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835150121
To be blunt- both are really 'replacement stock coolers'.

I wouldnt have bothered buying either of them......while they might be better than stock (and I'd want to see a decent test before I'd believe that) they are very similar to the stock heatsinks.

The 'X' pattern can work better than the 'U channel' heatsinks. Or it can be worse. It really depends on the airflow pattern in the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohn View Post
My latest card for a new machine is a Nvidia GT610 by Asus.
Same chip used in the G510, GT520, G605 and GT620.

The GT610 is really just a rebranded GT520, all the specs are the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohn View Post
As far as I am aware there isn't always and up to date specific NVIDIA driver in an opensuse repo. There are reams and reams of info on installing nvidia cards but much of it is way out of date.
As far as I know the openSUSE page on installing the nVidia drivers is up to date-

http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:NVIDIA

A manual install is 'the hard way'.

The drivers might not be as current as the manual d/l and installed drivers (I havent checked the version), but with a bottom of the line card being used for desktop use only it should run well enough even withthe initial release (non-beta) drivers (295.71). Once you get to 304.37/304.43 or newer drivers, there would probably would be no real difference in performance or power consumption between driver versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohn View Post
I do a fair amount of raw camera file image processing which tempted me towards the NV300 for my new machine
There is no NV300 (unless you are using it as a generic name for the nVidia 3XX cards). I'm still sure you mean quadro NVS 300.

What difference do you think there is between the quadro and geforce cards?
 
Old 06-23-2013, 04:11 AM   #23
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They mention correct colour on the NVS series. As I calibrate my monitor that aspect doesn't matter. I also wondered if these cards would be faster for photo type use but again as that is a small part of the load it doesn't really matter. I decided to stick with what I have used before - fastest silent nvidia. I assume the one I bought is the fastest but just searched nvidia silent.

The only problem I had with nvidia's own install was related to paths. Apart from that it was just a case or running it. The paths aspect was down to the way opensuse install. ;-) If I can't quickly remember that aspect I may well use the repo.

John
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:14 AM   #24
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohn View Post
They mention correct colour on the NVS series. As I calibrate my monitor that aspect doesn't matter. I also wondered if these cards would be faster for photo type use but again as that is a small part of the load it doesn't really matter.
As far as I know the quadro cards are no faster than the geforce cards for photo use. Geforce and quadro use the same drivers with linux, with the same software/driver featutes.

Its possible that some photo software has special quadro 'features' but I've never heard of that. The graphics (3d studio max/maya/photoshop mostly) people I know said the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohn View Post
I decided to stick with what I have used before - fastest silent nvidia. I assume the one I bought is the fastest but just searched nvidia silent.
Nope, the fastest nVidia cards with a 'from the manufacturer' fanless heatsink is currently the GT640.

GT610- 810MHz core, 48:8:4 (Shaders:texture mapping units:render output units) 64bit memory.
Gt640- 900MHz core, 384:32:16 (Shaders:texture mapping units:render output units) 128bit memory. There are a few other versions of the GT640, specs can change, I've just used the version that I know has been made with passive heatsinks.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desk...specifications

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desk...specifications

Depending on what programs you use and what you do, the 'faster' card could make a fair bit of difference.....or no difference at all.

Last edited by cascade9; 06-24-2013 at 05:15 AM.
 
Old 07-01-2013, 09:42 PM   #25
tigerflag
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Update: Built my new confuser on Wednesday. Hardest build I've ever done. Hardware just isn't what it used to be! Thought I had defective SATA ports on my mobo, but it turned out to be defective SATA cables- TWO of them, different brands.

The instructions for the Hyper TX3 were very difficult to read without a magnifying glass. I'm old, but I'm not that blind! The side panel on the case barely clears the top of the heatsink. At one point while installing the heatsink, it lifted off of the CPU on one side while I was trying to get the pushpins in. This might have introduced some air bubbles into the thermal paste. I should have removed it, reapplied the thermal paste and done it again, but I was so tired by that time that I just said to hell with it. This was my first experience with pushpins. I dislike them.

But it all seems to be working well. With room temp at 78F, the CPU idles @ 97F, mobo @ 80F. With the room at 85F, CPU idles @ 107F and mobo @ 89F. Air blowing out the back of the box is cool, and it's quiet.

Installed Slackware 14.0 and had four hard lockups from segfaults in the first few hours. Playing simple little Iago used up all my CPU. I installed Salix OS based on Slack 13.37, and everything is great. Video is gorgeous, Xfce and Mate are gorgeous. Bouncing Cow is bouncy. I can't complain.

Thanks for all your help!
 
Old 07-15-2013, 02:38 AM   #26
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerflag View Post
At one point while installing the heatsink, it lifted off of the CPU on one side while I was trying to get the pushpins in. This might have introduced some air bubbles into the thermal paste. I should have removed it, reapplied the thermal paste and done it again, but I was so tired by that time that I just said to hell with it. This was my first experience with pushpins. I dislike them.
Yeah, pushpins are a bit of a pain. I dislike them as well. They arent as bad as the old socket A (+ socket 370, etc.) setups, but not as easy as the current AMD heatsink attachment method.

Its probably fine even with a lift during install. Temps seem fairly good anyway.

Good to hear its all stuck together and running, enjoy.
 
  


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