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Old 07-05-2009, 07:44 AM   #1
jay73
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Baffled...new computer produces pulsating, high-pitched sound all the time...


Careful, long post ahead.

Well, it seems I'm stuck with my new rig so I am curious whether I can get some advice around here. The problem is I have assembled a new pc and ever since I added a couple of components, I have been hearing an extremely annoying pulsating, high-pitched sound that I am unable to locate. If you need a better idea, crank up your speakers and hold them next to your ears until they are ringing (your ears, not the speakers, duh!); that is what it sounds like, only it appears to be moving up and down, as if in circles or like a police siren. When I kneel next to the computers, I find it impossible to tell where it is originating, even with the case open, with the front and back fans turned off and when I use a rolled up sheat of paper as a hearing aid.

These are the components:

Antec Titan + Antec True Power Trio 650W
AMD Am3 955BE @stock 3.2Ghz (running 800Mhz most of the time, no difference)
Zalman 9500 AM CPU cooler
Gigabyte GA-MA-790XT-UD4P
4 x 2GB Corsair 1333MHz DDR3 (CL9)
ASUS DK 250GTS 512MB + Zalman VF1000 heatsink
ASUS Xonar XD/DX PCI-E soundcard
1 x WD Caviar Black 1TB
2 x Samsung Spinpoint 500GB
3 x Samsung Spinpoint 1TB
NEC SATA DVDRW
2 x 92mm Zalman front fans
Arctic MX thermal paste

The trouble started after I installed the ASUS video card, Xonar sound card and the Zalman CPU fan. Before that, the thing was too loud (stock AMD fan) but it did not produce that irritating sound. I initially thought it was coming from the stock fan on the video card so I replaced it with a Zalman heatsink; now it is quieter but that high-pitched tone is still there. When the card is removed or replaced with a 7600GS ,the sound is less insistent but still there. A 9600GT does not make much of a difference. When I also remove the sound card, the tone recedes further but it is still there.

Since that sound persists when I stop all fans except the CPU fan, I think those can safely be ruled out. The CPU fan, too - I think - as it seems to me that removing PCI-X cards should not have any impact on any sound produced by the CPU fan.

Hard drives? Same story as the CPU fan.

So maybe the motherboard? I have heard about squealing leaky capacitators but this board has all solid ones and is only three weeks old so that seems - again, to me - unlikely; plus there was none of that sound before I added the sound/video card and the CPU fan.

At this stage I am entertaining the idea that it may be the CPU. Antec may not be the very best but, well, it is 650W while the extreme vision PSU calculator shows me I need only 501W at most - that is, after two years of 24/7 usage with 20% capacity loss and with all components at peak load! So right now, as it is still new, it is using maybe just over half that. I think even the Antec should be more than adequate. Then again, the whine tends to become louder when the computer has been on for a while; also, I don't like the kind of heat that comes out of its back; the 500W earthwatts in my Sonata case never, ever ran that hot...

I'd be happy to have your opinion because that sound is so distracting that I haven't been able to get much use out of this computer yet.
 
Old 07-05-2009, 08:39 AM   #2
onebuck
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Hi,

Do you have another PSU to swap out the Antec? It could be a switching problem for the load. The laminates in a transformer could be loose therefore flex under a varying load. The singing could also be the switch control for a rail. Can you match/specify what the load is on each rail to see if this indeed is another possible problem?

Case reverberation could amplify any mechanical noise from a PSU or even a fan. The spider on a case speaker would vibrate from the mechanical action thus producing sound from the cone. That is if you have a case system speaker. Newer units use a piezoelectric therefore no regeneration problem.

Your swapping out a major load (video card) does suggest a PSU issue.
 
Old 07-05-2009, 09:29 AM   #3
rjlee
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I'd also say the CPU fan could be the culprit. When the CPU becomes hotter, the CPU fan often speeds up, and the motherboard tells the fan to spin faster. When you remove PCI cards, you could well be improving the airflow and/or temperature around the CPU, meaning that it becomes less hot less quickly.

Does the fan have two connectors to the motherboard? If so, one of these will be the CPU fan speed control - on mine there's a two-pin power connector and a three-pin speed control. You can safely unplug the speed control, which will cause the CPU fan to always go at maximum speed. I expect if you did this then you'd find that changing PCI cards no longer had any effect - in which case the vibration is definitely coming from the CPU.

Of course, the things that's causing the vibrations may not be the thing making the sound. This could be a resonance problem where vibrations in one part of the computer cause something else to vibrate at their resonant frequency and produce a noise. Just about anything in the case can resonate including PCI cards or the motherboard. Check for loose screws or other loose mechanical connections. Also see if pressing any part of the case or the external PCI card edges while the machine is on has any effect on the sound.
 
Old 07-05-2009, 10:24 AM   #4
jay73
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@onebuck

I am going to test as soon as I can with the 500W PSU from my Sonata case. It hasn't got enough cables to hook up all the hardware, though, so I am not sure whether this will be a reliable test.

@rjlee
Yes, it could be the CPU fan (as well) but I rather doubt it. These Zalmans have a fanmate, which is a little control you can tape to the outside of a computer case. I am not allowing the motherboard to handle fan speed automatically but use the fanmate to do it manually . Ditto for the GPU fan. When the fan is running at 1500RPM, it (the fan) is not audible at all but the whine is; when I make it run full speed (2500RPM), the high-piched sound seems to slow down (gently) but it does not get any louder. That slowdown may be just an impression, though, because at 2500RPM the fan gets loud enough for the whine to be harder to notice.

I have pushed and tilted the computer any way I can. In fact, right now, it is sitting on top of one of the styrofoam lids that the case came in, in an attempt to eliminate as much vibration as I can. I no longer hear the occasional rumble from the hard drives or the CPU fan but the whine is still there.

What is really frustrating is that this kind of sound is so elusive. When I kneel down next to the computer, I cannot make it out without using some amplifier; it only manifests itself more clearly when I sit down on a chair or get to my feet. Also - and that is the worst part - it immediately gets into your head. Even if I turn the computer on for only a couple of minutes, I will keep hearing it for at least an hour (even outside!).
 
Old 07-05-2009, 12:13 PM   #5
tredegar
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Quote:
Even if I turn the computer on for only a couple of minutes, I will keep hearing it for at least an hour (even outside!).
Then maybe you have tinnitus ?

Have you been listening to VERY LOUD music (or other sounds) recently?
If so, please don't, because you will damage your hearing.
 
Old 07-05-2009, 01:44 PM   #6
Quakeboy02
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With my old motherboard, I could pretty much tell the CPU load by the sound the machine made. When I did anything, it just changed. I managed to get used to it, and hadn't really thought of it till your post. Are you still using a CRT? If so, some of those are very noisy. You might also have a noisy disk drive. I guess if it were me, I'd unplug everything and start putting it all back one piece at a time. If you still hear it with only the boot drive, then unplug that and plug something else in so the mobo will start. It doesn't generally matter whether it will boot or not for the sound.

If all else fails, put your computer in another room, and use a Mac Mini as your front end.
 
Old 07-05-2009, 03:56 PM   #7
tredegar
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With my old motherboard,With my old motherboard,.....
But the OP hears this even when he is away from his computer.

Quote:
If all else fails, put your computer in another room, and use a Mac Mini as your front end.
??

He has already walked outside, and the noise is still there for him.

So, I don't think this is a problem with his computer.
 
Old 07-05-2009, 09:50 PM   #8
onebuck
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Hi,

I think that the noise is triggering a physical problem. Some people are very sensitive to certain frequencies. Once triggered some people can have lingering effects. I would suggest the OP see his/her physician.

As for the noise, it could be a mechanical resonance problem but I think it is electrical in manner with the SMPS.
 
Old 07-06-2009, 12:52 AM   #9
Electro
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I think jay73 has a problem with his hard drives. Probably they are doing self diagnostics or servos are causing this problem. This problem sometimes happens to my hard drives. I usually whack the computer case and the problem goes away. Usually computers with steel cases has this issue. My aluminum cases does not.

Heat pipes can create audible noises. Other causes could be the sound card that is having a hard drive reducing bus or system noise. The sound card does require an external power source instead of getting it from the motherboard, so the noises could be this. Another cause of the sound is a ground loop. If the noise is there after powering the computer and disconnecting it from the outlet, it could be an electronic device that is almost failing or florescent lighting could be the culprit.

If all else fails, buy an EMF detector and go around your place to find the highest EMF readings. Though might need to put a Faraday cage around in each room at your place for better protection.

Zalman is not a good CPU and graphics cooler company anymore. There are better brands that makes a lot better coolers. The Scythe Zipang (SCZP-1000) is a lot better than the Zalman 9500 AM2. Since the Zipang is discontinued, the Scythe KABUTO (SCKBT-1000) should be a good replacement. If you like the tower coolers, the Scythe KAMA ANGLE (SCANG-1000) should provide a lot better cooling for near noise-less setup.
 
Old 07-06-2009, 10:28 AM   #10
jay73
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Thanks all.

Well, whether that Antec PSU http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=964 is the culprit or not (I now think it is), it certainly is a p**. I have just replaced it with the 500W Antec Earthwatts I took out of my Sonata case and the difference in noise and heat production is incredible. I can now hold my hand over the back of the case and feel a gentle spring breeze issueing from both the PSU and the rear fan ; that True Power Trio felt more like a furnace and neither PSU nor rear fan appeared to be blowing at all... <rant>Perhaps not suprisingly if you consider how the latter is constructed: it has an intake fan on its bottom, right over the CPU fan!!! I had some misgivings from the start and I feel they are now being confirmed. I mean, how efficient can such a construction be? It is sucking up all the heat from the CPU - great idea, Antec engineers! - and it is also actively disturbing air flow badly enough for the rear fan to become totally inefficient. It may have three 12V rails but, well, that is not much consolation. Hard to believe it would get any favourable reviews at all...</rant>

Plus it would appear that the whine is gone, too. I am being tentative, though, because I am beginning to worry that my hearing has indeed been damaged by all the racket (no, I don't listen to loud music neither am I exposed to other loud sounds - I believe it is really the computer that is to blame). A good night's rest would clear my hearing but as I woke up today, that whine was still there. Until my hearing is back to normal, I cannot tell whether my impressions at this time are perfectly "sound". Still, I feel that what I am hearing now is just the whine inside my head, it is not being amplified by the case any longer. And I no longer need to fight an urge to bring out a good hammer to settle things once and for all.
I am testing with only three of the hard drives, though. So it could really be one of the drives that is not connected but that would not explain the differences in noise and heat production that I am observing.

So now I need a different PSU. Any ideas? I imagine a lot of you are going to suggest Enermax but for some reason those are pretty hard to come by over here. I see Corsair gets many good reviews, but well, so did that True Power Trio so I don't know what to make of reviews anymore. Or maybe a more powerful Earthwatts than the one I am using. Something else?

@Electro
Yes, I know there are better fans but the problem was finding one that would actually fit. These AM3 boards are an absolute nightmare because of the RAM sockets being so close to the CPU socket (I notice that AMD boards have tended to get worse and worse in this respect since s939). And Gigabyte apparently thinks the situation is not bad enough as their ATX boards are smaller than those made by other manufacturers.
 
Old 07-06-2009, 12:07 PM   #11
onebuck
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Hi,

Glad to hear you've made some progress.

You can mark the post as [SOLVED] with the Thread tools if you feel it is so. That way others will know it has come to a solution.
 
Old 07-06-2009, 02:25 PM   #12
Electro
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Power supplies that I suggest are Enermax and Seasonic. Antec might be great several years ago, but they are pathetic. I have two Antec power supplies that has giving me just problems, so I do not recommend them to anybody. Corsair is the same as Seasonic because Seasonic mostly makes Corsair power supplies although do really want a memory manufacture to provide power supplies. Seasonic specializes in power supplies and they have been doing for a long time. I am sorry that you do not have a wide selection of computer hardware, so look harder. I am sure there are stores over there just like newegg.com.

Hard drives does add heat to case. Depending on hard drive, it can provide between 10 watts to 20 watts of heat. I suggest a Western Digital SE16 250 GB hard drive to be used as your OS drive. Then a few Western Digital GP 1 TB hard drives for miscellaneous data. The SE16 is faster than the Caviar Black. Also the GP is faster than the Caviar Black.

Depending on your environment, I suggest think about positive or negative pressure when dealing with case cooling. If you are trying for positive pressure, look for fans with high air pressure specs. CFM is not the same as pressure. Also a bigger case can make cooling be a little easier.

Your setup is probably is too much for you depending on your work load. Using a fast processor usually means you are going to play games or doing a lot heavy work. If you going to play games with that setup, a GeForce GTX 285 will be a lot better choice compared to a GeForce GTX 250. You probably can get by using an Phenom II X4 810 or Phenom II X4 905e.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jay73 View Post
Yes, I know there are better fans but the problem was finding one that would actually fit. These AM3 boards are an absolute nightmare because of the RAM sockets being so close to the CPU socket (I notice that AMD boards have tended to get worse and worse in this respect since s939). And Gigabyte apparently thinks the situation is not bad enough as their ATX boards are smaller than those made by other manufacturers.
There is a difference between fans and heat sinks. Heat sinks dissipates the heat while fans pushes the air through a medium like a heat sink to make it more efficient. I suggested heat sinks not fans. For a noiseless setup, I suggest find PWM fans.

All motherboards for AMD setups are the same sizes. Most builders uses mid-tower casing which have short depths, so motherboard manufactures uses this information to design the motherboard. Also motherboards for Intel systems have the same sizes.

Intel systems have the same problems. Parallel memory bus requires short paths and even worst the high clocks requires the paths to be shorter. Both AMD and Intel systems will have clearance problems. Sure buffer chips can be used to move the memory further, but prices of the motherboards goes up and the ability to over clock suffers. Until a serial memory bus is used, you have to squeeze both heat sink and memory in small areas.
 
Old 07-06-2009, 03:27 PM   #13
jay73
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OK, there is more to it. I thought the PSU was the culprit but I come home today, my hearing perfectly cleared, I switch on the computer and TA-DAH there it is again. Not as loud as before but still there.

So I did what I had been planning to do for a while: I replaced the Zalman CPU fan with the stock fan. And now for the first time I hear it: it is the CPU fan! There is still a bit of that whine now but if I listen closely, I hear it modulate into the sound of a fan spinning really fast. In fact, when I hold my head close to the case and withdraw ever so slowly, I can hear the sound of the fan change gradually into a whine.

Well, at least it is bearable now.

So where did you say I could find that [CLOSED] tag?
 
Old 07-07-2009, 04:46 PM   #14
jay73
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Aaaaand ... here is the final word. It is the Gigabyte motherboard (790XT-UD4P). A friend came over with a bag of spare parts so we were able to try tons of combinations and to pick the system apart to the last bit. Replaced PSU, GPU, GPU fan, CPU fan, sound card, hard drives, removed everything except motherboard, CPU + fan and PSU. The friend thinks it is crappy mosfets. Gigabyte appears to have quite a reputation in this area... so I won't bother with and exchange. Oh well, it seems it is going to be MSI after all.

And now this is really [CLOSED]
 
Old 07-07-2009, 06:19 PM   #15
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I doubt they use "crappy MOSFET." All motherboard manufactures has this problem, so you could of gotten a defect board. In the past Gigabyte did have issues with some of their models producing too much radio interference that is outside ATX specifications. Metal cases blocks this interference and it should not have any psychological effects. Since it is one of the new models that uses "Split Power Plane, 8+2 phase VRM", it could cause a lot of interference. This interference could then be injected in your sound cards.

If this board is the first time using heat pipes for cooling the chipset, they do produce an audible noise that can produce pulsating noise that is related to increasing heat temperatures. Your friend might mistaken the sound from the MOSFET instead of the heat pipe. MOSFET does not create sound unless the current is reaching to their maximum specs and then seizing by smoking or worst catching on fire. Coils can vibrate too and can cause audible noises.
 
  


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