Just a general question for discussion.

Do you guys/gals see the Arm chip to replace the current Intel chips?

And I suppose to ask, will Linux follow to use it easily?

ARM is already in most tablets and mobile phones, so the kernel supports it quite well.

ARM is already in many SBC microcomputers, like the Raspberry Pi and Beaglebone, so quite a few full distros and most of their package repositories already support it.

As for replacing x86, that architecture was outdated over 20 years ago. It needs to go away post haste, especially in light of the permanent hardware bugs such as those cause by speculative execution. I'm not sure why Audi and VW got heat for similar crap to that Intel has gotten away with.

I have used Intel chips since around 1995, but am moving over to ARM, (specifically Raspberry Pi), it is the equal of their lower chips such as Atom & Celeron, & does everything that I need from a computer, & my online experience is just as good with these later models, the RP4B & RPi400. A big advantage is in their lower power consumption, as well as being absolutely quiet in operation. They are very small too, & a lot cheaper.

Whilst I use Raspberry Pi OS, there are other distros being made available, such as Ubuntu & Slackware, to name 2 others, so I expect more will join in in the near future to give plenty of choice.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/software/operating-systems/

Moved: This thread is more suitable in <Linux - Embedded & Single-board computer> and has been moved accordingly to help your thread/question get the exposure it deserves.

As I understand it, there's a legal problem. European regulations require x86_64 chips that run a uefi program to have a possibility of switching off secure boot. Arm chips don't have that legal protection. So if arm replaces intel, secure boot is going to become universal except on hacking devices like pi's. That's going to create a lot of problems for Linux users.

Moving this to "Linux - Embedded & Single-board computer" would have made sense years ago, but the world has moved on and there are several notebooks running on ARM, such as the Kubuntu Focus M2 and the Pinebook Pro to name two. Even Apple is making a proprietary DRM-laden competitor based on the ARM architecture with its new Macbook Air running on the M1. The Pi is without doubt a microcomputer and not a microcontroller, and always has been. Now the Raspberry Pi 4B and especially the Raspberry Pi 400 are targeted specifically at the desktop market.

So I would say that now this topic probably goes in "Linux - Hardware" or even "Linux - Desktop"

Edit: How did I confuse the processor on the Focus? It's not even beer o'clock yet.

Are you sure that's an ARM processor?
Intel Core i7-10875H
Comet Lake something?

Thanks for catching that. I wonder now WTF I actually read in regards to ARM and where. I thought I read some more serious contender than the Pipo besides the Pinebook Pro and the Raspberry Pi.

Will this secure boot problem also be a problem with M.S. Windows machines? (or even Apple desktops/laptops) ?

I imagine that this "legal problem" will be one that the European regulators will have to solve on their side, by modifying or passing new legislation, don't you?

Secure boot is ultimately a BIOS problem. You always have to look hard at BIOS. An MOQ of 1000 for the Pipo I see as a much bigger problem.


Thinks: I wonder if they have made it to Alibaba or AliExpress yet?

EDIT: I checked, and no they haven't. I did see some minimal x86_64 offerings (15W cpu, bottom-of-barrel specs but under $300). Mind you, those buying in the Excited States still have to get it past Trump's executive orders!

Today's CPUs are so much more complex than 1980s RISC CPUs that the instruction set has essentially no bearing on performance, power, or cost. The important features are in microarchitecture; logic, circuit, and physical design; and silicon process technology. High-performance CPUs can be built from diverse ISAs (x86 and IBM Power have been the leaders for a long time).

Building a high-performance CPU is hard, costs hundreds of millions of dollars, and has to be done repeatedly for every product generation. Only a few companies can afford that. Historically, the CPU business has been a graveyard for companies that could not match the performance or economies of scale of Intel or AMD.
Ed

Today it's getting diverse as Arm has a 'watts per core' advantage and is making inroads into the server market. Everyone has to buy BIOS, or write them if they want the Arm System Ready status. There are a few chips out there, mainly with vast numbers of cores. Single threaded performance never wins performance tests on Arm. Promably the best are Ampere Computing's offerings www.amperecomputing.com but they're aiming at top end stuff. They're selling 2x80 core A-76 Neoverse cores, doing boost frequency 100% of the time @3.Ghz. Total power per cpu is only 250W

Amazon's AWS servers have 2.5 Ghz cores @1W per core, but they're on hire, not for sale.

Marvell's ThunderX2 is good, and the earlier ThunderX is still around. Also, the NXP's LX2160A is worth a mention at 16 cores. It's a cross-over from Industrial chips, and is being built into a mini-server by this lot https://shop.solid-run.com/product/S...D00GE064H07CH/

This is still a W.I.P., and it's not ready as a server yet, but it sure knocks spots off a RazPi. But like a RazPi, you're bending it straight a bit. What are they doing with an MMC card in there?

One thing is for sure, IMO, which is Arm is the future.

Yes, and there is still time to get it onto the radar for FSF projects. It should be a priority for FSF to ensure that FOSS projects support ARM and, especially, that ARM allows the running of general purpose Free Software. That last point is not a given. ARM executives *hate* FOSS, Apple is making its own DRM'd chips based on ARM, and M$ is following suit. Waiting until things are settled and FOSS has been excluded will be an impractical approach.

Yeah, I agree. But probably the best was to do it ATM is to buy this year's Apple Mac.

My son started life as an IOS developer, and Macs were a must. But now he's (probably virtually) invited to these product briefings. With the latest M1, they're bigging up their improvement in compile times. His last Mac had an i7-8750H (a good cpu) and they're offering 50% reduction in compile times. It has 8 cores and runs @45W.


Here's another place - a bit pricier https://store.avantek.co.uk/arm-desktops.html

Lenovo are also supposed to be in the market.