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Old 01-23-2003, 11:20 AM   #1
justinv
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Win98 - Mandrake dual boot


Hi, how do I go about getting Win98 and Mandrake dually booting with only mandrake presently installed? And is my reason for installing windows (maybe wineX will work better/at all) legitimate? Do I need to remove linux and install win98 with a formatted hdd before reinstalling linux? And will this work if I attempt it...technically?

Thanks
 
Old 01-23-2003, 11:45 AM   #2
masinick
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Smile Mandrake and Windows work well together

If you don't mind installing Windows and wiping out Mandrake, that is probably the easiest approach to take. First install Windows 98, putting on whatever applicaitions you're interested in. When you're done, then install Mandrake. The Mandrake installation program (at least if you're using a reasonably current version made in the past year or so) is very adept at detecting other operating systems (especially Windows) and it can create new disk partitions, resize existing partitions, and create a boot manager capable of booting both systems.

I recommend installing Windows, then Mandrake. If Mandrake is already installed and working, I can pretty much guarantee that your new system will work, too.

Some side benefits of having Windows on the same machine are that you can import useful Windows fonts into Mandrake, you can run WineX and use Windows applications from either system, and you can also use Windows when it is advantageous to do so and Mandrake the rest of the time. You can truly have a flexible, yet easy to use, system. I recommend it!
 
Old 01-23-2003, 01:13 PM   #3
ajk
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My suggestion is, if possible, to install W$ on a second, empty HDD, and unplugging Linux HDD during install. Having two seperate HDDs makes it easier, I think...
 
Old 01-23-2003, 01:31 PM   #4
masinick
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Smile Managing boot loaders is the big issue in that case

Quote:
Originally posted by ajk
My suggestion is, if possible, to install W$ on a second, empty HDD, and unplugging Linux HDD during install. Having two seperate HDDs makes it easier, I think...
Installing Windows on another disk certainly keeps the two OS from interfering with each other, but then you have the issue of managing the boot loader. I certainly know how to add, remove, and modify boot loaders, but for the beginner, that's one of the most daunting things. Using two disks might make the initial installation easier, but I think it introduces other problems, like how to configure the boot loader to boot each system once you're done.

If you suggest an easy way to do that, too, I'll go along with your suggestion, otherwise, I think it is easier to install Windows first, then install Mandrake second, and let the Mandrake wizard figure out how to manage the boot loader.
 
Old 01-23-2003, 01:47 PM   #5
ajk
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You can do it through mandrake's lilo conf. it should be right easy, because to start a M$ disk lilo just needs the /dev/hdb and that's it.

Since you already have lilo on Mandrake disk, this is easy...

Try Mandrake's lilo conf tool, (just now...), you'll see it yourself.
 
Old 01-23-2003, 02:42 PM   #6
michaelk
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To install on same drive as MDK:
Windows doesn't have to be the installed on the first primary partition. On one of my PC's its hda3.
Depending on your partitions scheme if you have a primary available i.e. 1-4. If not then you will need to go with two drives or reformat and reinstall windows and llinux. Create a new primary partition and then make it active. Now you can install windows 98 since it will ignore any non-dos partitions. You will need to use either the boot CD in rescue mode or the rescue floppy to reinstall the bootloader ( I use the MBR).

For two drives
You can install windows on a another drive of course it needs to be a master. Boot linux to rescue mode and then you will need to change the bootloader to the linux drive and change all of the mount points in /etc/fstab.

Last edited by michaelk; 01-23-2003 at 02:46 PM.
 
Old 01-23-2003, 02:55 PM   #7
masinick
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I like that approach; sounds like a viable one and a winner to me.

Thanks.
 
Old 01-23-2003, 03:56 PM   #8
deadbug
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Brian,

You give in too easily. Someone adept with boot loaders can do this, but I would definitely not recommend it for a newbie. It will not go as smoothly as has been alleged; he will have "challenges" to overcome and "opportunities" to learn. Before he experiences this, it might be nice to get him hooked on something that works.

The simplest solution is what was first suggested. Window 98 is the challenge to install, so put it on first. Putting it anywhere but the first partition on the Primary drive will require manually reconfiguring the boot loader's configuration file. Therefore, give it the first partition and let Mandrake adapt from there. As Brian said, it is very good at that. Since Windows will install in a FAT32 partition that Linux reads & writes to, there should be no problem with LILO or Grub configuring it to boot.

Print out this thread. Actually, all of these ideas will work. As you become more comfortable with boot loaders, dual boot systems and Linux in general, you can try them. You will learn a lot doing that.

Just do it after you get everything working. Remember, it is almost always better to keep it simple.
 
Old 01-23-2003, 06:43 PM   #9
wartstew
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Quote:
Originally posted by masinick
I like that approach; sounds like a viable one and a winner to me.

Thanks.
Depending on if you are careful or careless, you might want to heed Deadbugs warning. Bootloaders cause a lot of grief for 's.

That said, approach described by Michaelk is a sound one. To avoid a couple of pitfalls, I would make a couple of changes however:

1) Make sure you have (and tested) an alternate way to get into your Linux system. Examples are either booting from the install CD and entering the proper "root=/dev/hda1" line or what ever to get in, or build and test a rescue floppy. You are likely going to need it!

2) You likely have the first stage of the lilo boot loader installed in the MBR. On dual boot systems with Microsoft OS's, this is an unsafe place for it because Windows and its utilities like to destroy it every once in a while.

Therefore what I do is move it to the front of your Linux partition by editing the line in your /etc/lilo.conf file that says "boot=/dev/hda" and make it say "boot=/dev/hda1" (assuming Linux is on the 1st partition). While you are at it, add an entry to boot Windows at the end of the file. It might look something like this:

other=/dev/hda2
label=Windows
table=/dev/hda

Next we have to actually create a partition for Windows so that Lilo will know how to boot into it when the time comes. Use fdisk or cfdisk, if you don't know what filesytem type to set it, don't worry at this point because we can have Windows recreate it anyway. lilo just needs to know where the start of it will be. Then run "lilo" at the boot prompt. Congratulations, your computer will now not boot. But don't worry, yet.

3) Shut down your system, put in your bootable Windows CD, boot it up and proceed to install Windows. Have it use the partition you set aside for it, It can delete and recreate it if necessary, make sure you don't tell it to wipe out your Linux partition. After all the reboots of the normal Windows install, you should hopefully will have a working Windows system.

4) At this point you should have a system that will boot Windows if you set the active partition to the Windows partition and boot Linux if you set the active partition to the Linux one. Make sure you know how to do this in both Linux (fdisk/cfdisk) and Windows (fdisk, or "storage manager" depending on your Windows version). Also when you set it to the Linux partition, you should be given a choice of which OS to boot into. If it does but it doesn't work, try running "lilo" again. If it still doesn't, review how your partitions are set up and how your lilo.conf thinks they are.

Now you have a dual booting system. You can freely perform the common activity of re-installing windows without it wiping out your Linux boot loader because it is all hidden in the Linux partition. When you are done re-installing Windows, it will have moved the active partition back to Windows. Just move it back to Linux to get your boot menu back. Likewise, you can remove, upgrade, or try out different Linux distros without making your Windows not boot (well almost, you probably will have to get the active partition set back to the Windows partition). Neither of these senarios would go as smoothly if you have lilo on the MBR.

You can also make the Windows 2000/XP boot loader boot Linux too. I can't remember how to do it but do a google search for "boot.ini Linux" for the answer. If you are installing Win9x, you can use "loadlin.exe" in a config menu inside of "autoexec.bat" to dual boot as well.

PS: So now, if all this is intimidating, then perhaps you should follow deadbug's warnings. I do feel this arrangement (lilo NOT on the MBR) is the best and most reliable because Windows can't hurt it. I also think it is worth learning how to use a boot loader (lilo, grub, etc) because you'll learn how to do all kinds of neat things with them as well as be able to repair your system when you mess it up. Lilo has a lot of documentation: check out pdf files Mandrake has in /usr/share/doc/lilo-xx-xx-x, Also there is the out of date, but still good http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/mini/LILO Mini Howto.

Now on to you using Windows to make Wine work better. Yes it should: You can configure Wine to use the windows "dll's" instead of it's own incomplete set of shared libraries. You can also steal the Windows font library to give nicer fonts to Xfree86.
 
Old 01-23-2003, 07:06 PM   #10
masinick
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Smile No point in arguing about it

Quote:
Originally posted by deadbug
Brian,

You give in too easily. Someone adept with boot loaders can do this, but I would definitely not recommend it for a newbie. It will not go as smoothly as has been alleged; he will have "challenges" to overcome and "opportunities" to learn. Before he experiences this, it might be nice to get him hooked on something that works.

The simplest solution is what was first suggested. Window 98 is the challenge to install, so put it on first. Putting it anywhere but the first partition on the Primary drive will require manually reconfiguring the boot loader's configuration file. Therefore, give it the first partition and let Mandrake adapt from there. As Brian said, it is very good at that. Since Windows will install in a FAT32 partition that Linux reads & writes to, there should be no problem with LILO or Grub configuring it to boot.

Print out this thread. Actually, all of these ideas will work. As you become more comfortable with boot loaders, dual boot systems and Linux in general, you can try them. You will learn a lot doing that.

Just do it after you get everything working. Remember, it is almost always better to keep it simple.
Thanks for the affirmation. I'd still do it the way I suggested, too. But there is more than one way to do most anything. If people want to make matters more difficult, simply to save on (who knows what), why argue?

I agree. Installing Windows first, regardless of the flavor, then installing Mandrake is definitely the best way to go, simply because the Mandrake wizards have become quite clever and accurate at deducing disk geometry, resizing and creating partitions, then creating a working boot loader.

... but on the other hand, why argue about it? There are many ways to accomplish any task; we've said our peace, now let people decide which is best for their own situation. I'll stick with my approach, and I'm sure you will, too!
 
Old 01-23-2003, 09:22 PM   #11
wartstew
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I also agree the Windows first, then Linux is the best order of installation, but what if the user just spent many days tweaking their system and would rather leave it intact if possible? My post was to show what was basically involved in making it work the other way, then JustinV can choose which way he wants to go.

Doing Windows first then Mandrake: It usually just works, but then again, you don't learn anything.
 
  


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