Win 8 computers won't run Linux - true?
 

Warren Woodford (inventor of MEPIS) Twittered that new computers with a "certified for Windows 8" sticker probably won't run Linux. How right is he? My dad has been somewhat interested in switching to Linux for a long time (but has never put in the time or effort, aside from briefly trying out an Ubuntu liveCD). Should I warn him that if he buys another Windows computer off the shelf the next time his computer dies on him, he can forget about Linux?

That's partially true. What M$ has said is that OEMs have the option to put the special UEFI thingy in the BIOS. IF they do, then

a) The boot loader needs to have a special signature (M$-provided , of course)

and

b) The OS that you're booting needs to be signed.

If the computer has this UEFI BIOS, nothing can boot without being signed. Basically, no Linux, BSD, or anything.

Fedora has made and bought signatures for $100 a pop to sign their software.

Alex Brinister

If it is an Intel based computer, he may be able to disable UEFI or a workaround may exist that will let you even build your own kernel.

The $100 in post#2 is what it costs Red Hat to get their key. SuSE has developed an extention to RH's solution allowing users and other distros to add their own keys to a private key ring.

They did say something about it being optional on computer (excluding hand-helds). So the question is really: why even implement it?

Alex Brinister

dual booting might be a problem
wiping out Win8 and the MS mandated UEFI settings
then reinstalling all the firmware WITHOUT the need for the MS mandated hashes will still be possible

however an option for disabling the UEFI settings ??? SHOULD ??? be available for X86 ? maybe

However ARM cpu's ??? that is a whole new ball game
MS wants ALL ARM hardware sold with win8 to ONLY run win8
( win 9 - buy a NEW device)

basically
BUY a computer or hand held computing device -- WITHOUT a OS preinstalled

Microsoft has said that if hardware manufacturers want 'Microsoft Certification' (which basicly means 'get the certified for windows 8' sticker) the system has to implement UEFI 'Secure Boot'.

If the hardware manufacturer provides a way to disable secure boot, that is allowable (on x86 hardware anyway, its not with ARM devices). If there is a way to disable secure boot in the UEFI BIOS, the OS will NOT need to be signed to boot.

Comon.....

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...fi-secure-boot

Should be possible on AMD (and even VIA) systems as well.

Not that its necessary to disable UEFI (really, that would be 'change back to the old style BIOS'), just disabling secure boot is all that is needed.

*edit- and given the right situation, it should be possible to boot any OS even with secure boot enabled. How many manufacturers will allow users that much control over the systems they own is unknown now. As is how difficult it will be to hack if they dont allow it, and how good and easy to use the tools will be if they do allow it.

BTW, even if it is possible to change back to BIOS, that will stop installed microsoft OSes from booting, as "After Windows has been installed on a UEFI platform, Windows can boot only on a UEFI platform." (quote from Microsofts 'UEFIrequirements.docx', link is a PITA or else I would post it).

Optional, up to the hardware manufacturer.

I'd predict that the cheaper the computer, and the more corporate the manufacturer, the less likely to have a way to disable secure boot.

Its more likely that computers or devices sold without an OS will have the option to disable secure boot, but there is no guarantee that a no OS computer (or even motherboard if you buy in parts) will have a way to disable secure boot.

Just to clarify some things:
1. UEFI and Secure Boot are not the same. You can have UEFI mainboards without Secure Boot.
2. If the machine is x86 and has the Windows 8 logo there must be options in the BIOS to
a) disable Secure Boot completely.
b) add your own custom keys, so that you can sign your own bootloader/kernel.
3. The bigger distros have already obtained keys, so even with Secure Boot enabled you will be able to install Ubuntu/Fedora/RHEL and I think openSuse.

You can use your own key to sign the bootloader.
Both statements are not true. UEFI is not preventing anything from installing. Only in the case you have a UEFI firmware that has Secure Boot implemented, activated and you don't have a signed bootloader you will not be able to install Linux.
Also, Fedora has not only tried to buy a key, they have done it (by the way, they bought it from Verisign, not Microsoft) and it costs them 99$ per version of the distribution. You have nothing to pay for it.

The link you gave us is for installing Windows 8 on a specific Intel board with UEFI enabled. It is not about UEFI in general and it is not about Secure Boot. Again, UEFI is not Secure Boot.
If the device has a Windows 8 logo it has have be options for disabling Secure Boot and adding custom keys. Otherwise they would not get the logo.

True for handhelds (but really difficult to get handheld devices without OS), but not for x86 hardware. Even if it comes without OS you can buy hardware that will run only Windows 8. It sounds ironic, but the only way to make sure that you get x86 hardware that is not locked to Windows is to buy hardware with the Windows 8 logo.

AFAIK, no. Microsoft hasnt stated that there _must_ be options to do either 'a' or 'b'.

Maybe I've missed something?

That's what I was trying to get at. I realize that UEFI is different from the Secure Boot thing. By my use of 'UEFI', I was implying Secure Boot (should have clarified). And I only realized that that link had nothing to do with the matter (it was not talking about an OEM install of Windows 8 anyway). Fixed.

Yeah, I was confused about that and misposted when I said that. That article cascade gave a link to cleared things up for me.

Where would one get a hand-held without an OS?

Alex Brinister

Yes, you have: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...dware/jj128256
Paragraph 18, disabling Secure Boot:Paragraph 17, modifying the key database:

Always a popular question.

I doubt the twitted issue is correct. I'd say the opposite. A windows 8 certified computer will boot linux. I might go so far as to say any x86 class will boot some linux.

I believe the original poster is talking about Secure Boot. In that case, then Yes: Linux will continue to be able to run on new computers, just as Windows 8 will. However, it will take a little bit more tweaking at the hardware/bios level to get it to run.

@TobiSGD - Thanks for the link and clarification.

Where this gets messy is:
Paragraph 2
Paragraph 11
Paragraph 14
Having to toggle a firmware setup setting to boot Windows8 or an unsigned Linux OS is a departure from the freedom and convenience that I currently enjoy with my multiboot setups.

You should take the emphasis on the first part of the quote:Just add your own key to the firmware and sign your bootloader with it.

If people only want linux and no windows they should get a system 76 -- no need to worry about keys.