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Old 10-25-2014, 12:48 AM   #166
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
What is there to disagree about?<snip>
Yep that's why there are so many addons that are designed to stop spying. Believe it or not humans are not as stupid as a few of you would like to make out they are. Sure they may just fall into line but that doesn't mean they don't know what's going on. The rate this conversation with Cynwulf is going, and now you have joined in, we are all going to be told to switch to a BSD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
Misrepresentation or lying?
When isn't deliberate misrepresentation a lie?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
I agree that users had a right to feel betrayed, but when people are mislead by misinformation and lies, the smart thing to do is switch distributions. What most Ubuntu users did does not make sense. They complained, but continued using the system. (Although Buntu users are not the only people displaying this odd behaviour. Many Debian users are currently complaining about systemd being forced on them, but most of them have no intention of switching to other OSes. Complain for a while, then fall back in line. So Ubuntu users are not terribly unusual.)
I think you'll find, yes this is a personal opinion, that it is a small but extremely vocal group of Debian users who are complaining about systemd. If you think they are exhibiting odd behaviour then why don't you go and have a word in their ear and tell them how odd they are. While your at it think about how odd it is to have a desperate need to insert systemd into a discussion that has been free from it so far (apart from one quote posted by the OP which most people ignored anyway).
 
Old 10-25-2014, 08:18 AM   #167
Drakeo
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have you ever open the software manager and wanted just to install a program and what was the bull shit you see 30 things with that name. hey I just want the full program wtf. oh you want the docks
you want 0caml you want this that no I want the F!@#$% program and the libraies that come with it. apt-get wtf.
No you dont you want this or that. No I want qt the whole GD thing wtf is with Ubuntu they have 30,000 usles packages. for waht.
try this apt-get -install ffmpeg have fun. and see if it installs ffmpeg no it installs the guts lol. Ubutoo 30,000 pacages
i am righting this in kubuntu 12.04 and you think the ediots would have a hunspell that worked let me apt-get this apt-get hunspell MF.
oops already installd waall igueeessss it woks wight.
same thing in 14.04

Last edited by Drakeo; 10-25-2014 at 08:26 AM.
 
Old 10-25-2014, 08:47 AM   #168
Randicus Draco Albus
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You may want all of Qt, but some people do not. They only want parts of it. Why force others to install a buch of packages they do not want, so you do not have the "inconvenience" of needing to install several packages, instead of just one? Should a disto remove choice to cater to only one type of user?
 
Old 10-25-2014, 11:01 AM   #169
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Yep, the comment was a simplification.
Nope it wasn't...

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
The complaints weren't about Dash but rather the fact its "spying" was turned on by default.
The google chrome/mozilla spying is also on by default - where is the outrage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
I don't think that users who stayed around should blame themselves for wanting to help the Foss ecosystem. After all Ubuntu advertises that it is made up of volunteers who work to make it better (see comment at the end for a quote).
What buntu advertises itself as is irrelevant and has been proven so countless times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
I agree you can't tell them what to do but you can voice your disappointment.
Procrastination is pointles - contribute or just move on and find an alternative way to "help the Foss ecosystem"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
More like you don't want to get it, and that's fine. I've explained in 2 posts in reply to you now what the general issue was with Dash. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean others can't (I see it and I stopped using Ubuntu a fair while before they introduced it).
I see the problem with Dash as I've already stated, I don't see the difference between Dash and any other ad/spyware infested software which most users use daily and don't care about. Most buntu users probably installed flash and ran firefox or chrome with the build in spyware enabled. My point is that unity lens was not their biggest problem - it just made typically sensationalist news at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Is it wrong for people to voice disappointment for the business methods of a company?
No, not wrong, but if the company in question has already been doing similar things in the past and made it very clear as to which direction they were heading, it seems like pointless ranting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
It was the same with Wayland many complained about the business methods used for the Mir decision. If Canonical had developed Mir from scratch there wouldn't have been half the outcry but they didn't. Instead they "helped" develop Wayland and then took off and developed Mir using what was already in Wayland as a starting point. There was no real descision to help Wayland mature they just wanted a head start for Mir.
Nonsense. That's called a "fork" and mir is GPL v3 licenced, so not as if it was BSD/ISC code which they went and closed off - that could be a valid complaint (though not in my opinion). google have done the same with webkit - forked it to a layout engine called 'blink'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
You don't have to get it, you go your way and let others go theirs.
You don't have to get what I don't get which you don't get...

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Did I assume? I never assume anything when money is involved but lets be fair and understand that for years the Ubuntu website said Ubuntu is free and always will be free, it may not say that anymore but it certainly did while I was using it.
When did they start charging users a licence fee - I wasn't aware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
It was well known Canonical's income stream was supposed to come from support services (similar to Red Hat). Peoples expectations, whether they were right or wrong is another issue altogether, of Ubuntu was that it "just worked", "was free" as in freedom, not that the OS itself was going to spy on you.
The OS always provided 3rd party software which spied on you - as do other distros - yet no one seems to have complained about it. I'm not condoning the shopping lens (it's a stinking turd of an idea) - but it's just not the huge deal it was made out to be at the time. buntu hypocritcally shepherded users towards proprietary software and canonical developed their own proprietary stuff - buntu users defended that and made excuses for it. The objective was always a free proprietary OS alternative/clone - whatever the marketing on the website may have claimed. Bug #1 pretty much spelled that out long ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Yep that's why there are so many addons that are designed to stop spying. Believe it or not humans are not as stupid as a few of you would like to make out they are.
The majority don't use these add ons as they can be cumbersome and prevent sites from working correctly. I can't really help much if you think the majority of, or even a significant nnumber of, firefox and chrome users are selectively blocking javascript and third party cookies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
The rate this conversation with Cynwulf is going, and now you have joined in, we are all going to be told to switch to a BSD.
Bollocks. Obvious strawman argument... come up with a better one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
I think you'll find, yes this is a personal opinion, that it is a small but extremely vocal group of Debian users who are complaining about systemd.
I think you'll find that it was a small but extremely vocal group of buntu users who complained about unity shopping lens... the majority don't use the forums - believe it or not - and probably didn't care... canonical know this and it's why the forum users have pretty much always been treated with indifference (if not outright contempt). The shopping lens scandal was simply exacerbated by the tech press (as usual) who always love to sieze on this kind of thing (it's how they make a living after all).

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
While your at it think about how odd it is to have a desperate need to insert systemd into a discussion that has been free from it so far (apart from one quote posted by the OP which most people ignored anyway).
Think about your own "desperate need" to inject "BSD" into this thread.

Last edited by cynwulf; 10-25-2014 at 11:05 AM.
 
Old 10-25-2014, 12:10 PM   #170
jamison20000e
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sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install qt5-default qttools5-dev-tools
 
Old 10-25-2014, 12:16 PM   #171
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakeo View Post
have you ever open the software manager and wanted just to install a program and what was the bull shit you see 30 things with that name. hey I just want the full program wtf. oh you want the docks
you want 0caml you want this that no I want the F!@#$% program and the libraies that come with it. apt-get wtf.
No you dont you want this or that. No I want qt the whole GD thing wtf is with Ubuntu they have 30,000 usles packages. for waht.
try this apt-get -install ffmpeg have fun. and see if it installs ffmpeg no it installs the guts lol. Ubutoo 30,000 pacages
i am righting this in kubuntu 12.04 and you think the ediots would have a hunspell that worked let me apt-get this apt-get hunspell MF.
oops already installd waall igueeessss it woks wight.
same thing in 14.04
I think this is a funny comment coming from somebody whose current distribution comes with everything but the kitchen sink in the default (and recommended) install.
 
Old 10-25-2014, 12:42 PM   #172
jamison20000e
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Code:
ncks
Quote:
- netCDF Kitchen Sink

Last edited by jamison20000e; 10-25-2014 at 12:43 PM.
 
Old 10-25-2014, 01:15 PM   #173
rokytnji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
No matter how "secure" you make either one, one or the other owns you! As opposed to something like Blag...
You made me look.

Quote:
Blag is Fedora-based
So with the systemd flac going around. They sound kinda schizo to me. Or am I being silly thinking Redhat and Fedora have nothing in common. I guess if they do not bend you over one way. They bend you over the other?

But hell, all this fud has me watching folks left and right thinking bird droppings from the sky are going to knock off every bodies
tin foil hats. Like we personally are all that important in life? I do give points in my head ranging from one through ten though.
On the best rants given.

Kinda like watching bikers dropping their bikes after a rain storm coming back to camp down a muddy slope.
The most points went to one who had a girl on the back with crutches. When they went down. When we helped her
up. She beat her boyfriend with the crutches yelling and screaming. They got a 11.
 
Old 10-25-2014, 01:49 PM   #174
jamison20000e
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It depends on who maintains the distro canonical\redhat or us...

I do think privacy is for animals.

Take the word snitch for example it's really only used by children or criminals!

Last edited by jamison20000e; 10-25-2014 at 02:01 PM.
 
Old 10-25-2014, 01:51 PM   #175
% unixporn %
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I don't hate ubuntu, just the unity desktop.
 
Old 10-25-2014, 03:47 PM   #176
jamison20000e
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I hate adobe more.
 
Old 10-25-2014, 03:56 PM   #177
jamison20000e
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http://www.ladyada.net/make/wavebubble/index.html
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-25-2014, 04:01 PM   #178
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
What buntu advertises itself as is irrelevant and has been proven so countless times.
What something advertises itself a is not irrelevant. Advertising draws people in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Procrastination is pointles - contribute or just move on and find an alternative way to "help the Foss ecosystem"...
So voicing disappointment is procrastinating is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
My point is that unity lens was not their biggest problem.
Again you won't find an argument from me against this statement but you are making blanket statements about a wide group of people and I have serious doubts that your statements are correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
No, not wrong, but if the company in question has already been doing similar things in the past and made it very clear as to which direction they were heading, it seems like pointless ranting.
So whya re you ranting now? You have voiced your disappointment about Ubuntu users, why are you still continuing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Nonsense. That's called a "fork" and mir is GPL v3 licenced, so not as if it was BSD/ISC code which they went and closed off - that could be a valid complaint (though not in my opinion). google have done the same with webkit - forked it to a layout engine called 'blink'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
You don't have to get what I don't get which you don't get...
Seriously, you couldn't think of a better comeback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
When did they start charging users a licence fee - I wasn't aware?
Where did I say they did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
The OS always provided 3rd party software which spied on you
Name 1 package from ubuntu 4.10 that was installed by default and spied on the user and sent the information off to someone else without the users permission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
The objective was always a free proprietary OS alternative/clone - whatever the marketing on the website may have claimed. Bug #1 pretty much spelled that out long ago.
In your opinion, which I am not sayi8ng is right or wrong becaus I do not know the absolute inner depths of Shuttleworth's mind like you appear to think you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
The majority don't use these add ons as they can be cumbersome and prevent sites from working correctly. I can't really help much if you think the majority of, or even a significant nnumber of, firefox and chrome users are selectively blocking javascript and third party cookies.
I didn't ask for your help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Bollocks. Obvious strawman argument... come up with a better one...
So tell me this then Cynwulf, why did you swap to BSD from Slackware then, what was it about Slackware that made you move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
I think you'll find that it was a small but extremely vocal group of buntu users who complained about unity shopping lens...
Now we are getting somewhere. Before you were making blanket statements now you are saying it was a small number of people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
the majority don't use the forums - believe it or not - and probably didn't care... canonical know this and it's why the forum users have pretty much always been treated with indifference (if not outright contempt).
The forum wasn't even owned by Canonical until a couple of years ago so they didn't have to treat the forum with anything let alone contempt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
The shopping lens scandal was simply exacerbated by the tech press (as usual) who always love to sieze on this kind of thing (it's how they make a living after all).
Oh yes now we have the conspiracy theory coming out. I was wondering how long that would take you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Think about your own "desperate need" to inject "BSD" into this thread.
I actually thought you had a better mind than that. I didn't inject BSD into this thread for any other reason than to show the injection of systemd was a futile exercise and one designed to take the topic off track.
 
Old 10-25-2014, 05:42 PM   #179
Randicus Draco Albus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
Kinda like watching bikers dropping their bikes after a rain storm coming back to camp down a muddy slope.
The most points went to one who had a girl on the back with crutches. When they went down. When we helped her
up. She beat her boyfriend with the crutches yelling and screaming. They got a 11.
You have such an exciting life. I envy you.
 
Old 10-25-2014, 06:06 PM   #180
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
What something advertises itself a is not irrelevant. Advertising draws people in.
If you're hooked in by advertising, then you miss the point of "free software"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
So voicing disappointment is procrastinating is it?
Disappointment is lessened if expectations aren't too high to start with, the banshee, amazon, gnome thing among other things had already set the bar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Again you won't find an argument from me against this statement but you are making blanket statements about a wide group of people and I have serious doubts that your statements are correct.
Yet not one of your statements are blanket statements - it works both ways. I'm willing to admit a little bias and generalisation are you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
So whya re you ranting now? You have voiced your disappointment about Ubuntu users, why are you still continuing?
You posted criticism about canonical/buntu and the amazon lens - I posted some counter points. Sorry you feel bitter about it. You're also 'continuing', or is it the case that you feel you are somehow entitled to the last word? I see it a lot that you resort to the same arguments - e.g. why is the other person still pursuing this. Unfortunately for you, the other person can... you might not like it nor agree with the other person - tough shit - your views aren't gospel. In fact to me your views on the matter aren't worth shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Seriously, you couldn't think of a better comeback?
I probably could have done, but Why bother?

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Where did I say they did?
You said that buntu had claimed it would always be free. Instead of playing forum lawyer, explain why you said that unless why you are alluding that buntu is no longer free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Name 1 package from ubuntu 4.10 that was installed by default and spied on the user and sent the information off to someone else without the users permission.
More pendantic lawyering - it's had the firefox google spyware enabled since at least 6.10 - 8 years... the year before the shopping lens there was the amazon/banshee scandal - so how did this come as a surprise. Debian's iceweasel doesn't disable it either. You're implying that users perceptions of "african freedom linux" were utterly shattered with the amazon shopping lens scanadal, I'm saying that's it's no real shock and plenty of shit happened before this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
In your opinion, which I am not sayi8ng is right or wrong becaus I do not know the absolute inner depths of Shuttleworth's mind like you appear to think you do.
Ok so if you know better, if you know for 100% certain that the Debian derivative was wholly for altruistic reasons - enlighten us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
So tell me this then Cynwulf, why did you swap to BSD from Slackware then, what was it about Slackware that made you move.
If and when that ever becomes your business you'll be the first to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Now we are getting somewhere. Before you were making blanket statements now you are saying it was a small number of people.
Are we getting anywhere? You could have fooled me... You made a lot of blanked statements as well, but of course they don't count... you also voiced an opinion that "a small but extremely vocal group of Debian users who are complaining about systemd", perhaps we should ask you to back that one up as well? The complaints about systemd also came from Debian developers and were on the Debian mailing lists and from upstream developers and from other distributions and operating systems. systemd attracted a lot of flack from more than just this "minority" you speak of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
The forum wasn't even owned by Canonical until a couple of years ago so they didn't have to treat the forum with anything let alone contempt.
Get your facts straight - the forums has been owned by canonical since 2007.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Oh yes now we have the conspiracy theory coming out. I was wondering how long that would take you.
If you think my claim that the tech press exaggerate and publish utter bollocks just to get a story is conspiracy theorist, then you obviously have no concept of a "conspiracy theory". This is your weakness in that you attack your own perception of the poster rather than their arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
I actually thought you had a better mind than that.
See what I mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
I didn't inject BSD into this thread for any other reason than to show the injection of systemd was a futile exercise and one designed to take the topic off track.
Ok.... randicus mentioned systemd - I did not - in response to which you mentioned me and "converting" people to "BSD" in the same post? And it seems that you are allowed to do that...? How exactly is that keeping the topic "on track"...?

Honestly I've got no idea what the fuck you're talking about - despite your having a better mind than us mere mortals. If you don't like buntu you're not the first, but honestly banging on about a bit of spyware considering that most Linux users knew what buntu were about years ago, seems impotent at best. You've also moved on, so I don't get why you're still bitter about it. Obviously you were deceived by the marketing and then felt let down, sorry about that, but honestly I thought you were a clever enough fucker not to be taken in.

Last edited by cynwulf; 10-25-2014 at 06:07 PM.
 
  


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