Would it not be crazy if you had to install MS Word
just to have keyboard support and be able to type in command prompt?!

or

Why do I need X just to use my Graphic Card?



***
project: myOS - Linux based OpenGL development system without X

Minimalistic GNU/Linux system, stripped down of everything, but core necessary files to compile and run OpenGL/C code. It has simplified directory structure and cleaned up internal cross referencing. Programs compiled in myOS will run on any Linux with or without X.
***


how much time did it take you to make OpenGL work on your Linux last time?
when you make OpenGL app under Linux, how many people, you hope, will be able to run it?

- myOS will work "out of the box" (see list of GPUs at scitechsoft)
- does not need to be "installed", nothing to set-up, modify or configure
- small and runs entirely from RAM (ROM if you want to)
- can run Live from USB stick or CD or whatever
- will boot in 2-3 sec. (after bios)
- best of all, those OpenGL programs compled in myOS (scitech drivers) will run on any Linux with or without X, again without additional configuration or setup of any kind, just unpack and run!


Live CD myOS-1_0_3.iso - 12.8Mb (2007-03-24)

download on my web-page
(search for: myOS linux opengl)


cheers

???? are you asking??? or what is this??

Are you saying you've written a xorg replacement to draw an openGL window? Go on them show us

You do not need X to use your graphic card, you can use the framebuffer if you like.

You need an underlying graphic layer to use OpenGL, it can be Windows, Mac OS or X11, so X11 is the logical choice with Linux / Unix.

There is also project to have OpenGL running on the framebuffer, so without X:

http://mesa3d.sourceforge.net/fbdev-dri.html

hi,

hgb,
yes, im asking this:
why do i, or anyone, need X to use Graphic Card?

what confused you?



knobby67,
it is - Linux based OpenGL development system without X

not replacement for Xorg,
replacement for X is possible,
drivers, however are not full hw accel. and so there wouldnt be any gain in graphic rendering aspect of it..
i havent written anything reponsible for working of this, i only found pieces, modified, stripped, compiled then re-arranged, cleaned then gave up of making it couple times...
few years later, one day, not really sure how, it all started working!

anyway, heres link,
hope you'll find it interesting:
http://one.xthost.info/zelko/opengl.html


jlliagre,
>"You do not need X to use your graphic card, you can use the framebuffer if you like."

no, i dont like,
cards these days come with OpenGL/DirectX capabilities, beside vesa/framebuffer just as computers come with CD-ROM, and if you couldnt use CD-ROM before you install, say NERO, would you be happy that you can still "use" your computer but with floppy drive if you like?


>"You need an underlying graphic layer to use OpenGL, it can be Windows, Mac OS or X11, so X11 is the logical choice with Linux / Unix."

no, we dont need underlying anything,
as you said it later - "There is also project to have OpenGL running on the framebuffer, so without X:"

that project, however, doesnt quite work (i've tried 'em all)
to see OpenGL without X you'll have to go to scitechsoft.com or my web-site.

and this is interesting bit,
you wont find this enywhere else, im not bragging, im merely pointing finger to scitech drivers, and honestly ask:-

"holy cow, how is this possible?! why, no one else knows about this?"

these are not just graphic drivers, but complete i/o, interrupt and other device drivers, ALL you need to build complete OS or app like X.





to make it more clear:
question is not, if it is possible without X, but why isnt it so?

* why "bundle" graphic drivers with X?
* why not have low-level linux drivers?

X could(should) then be built with those drivers, but certainly in no way should be requisite to use OpenGL

* is it not only natural that your window manager is OpenGL program that needs not to sweat, blink and freeze just to move few bitmaps(windows) around the desktop?



cheers

i believe this is commonly referred to as spam

Why I would need make "spam"??? that is lame... by the way, if you think is spam, you can do click on the image that has the word "report" for the post "you think" it is spam (even you can report your own post...).


Being a forum of questions, the title reassemble a question, then some "why this, why that" the questions turned to retoric questions, then some annotations, what missed me was

In fact, I terminate the read of the post without know if you where proposing a new project, asking, or showing.


I see your profile, no home page, search where???, I will not do a search when you can put the direct link like finally was done... by the way the search give this result, but even there is a link to what matter to the post in "read more" link.


By the way, it look interesting, my attention can be turned to.

hgb, i think you misunderstood me.. i was not referring to your post as spam.. i was answering your initial question.. (spam was referring to the original post by zelko)

This thread is going downhill fast. I guess you need X, because that's what the graphics card makers' developers, as well as open source developers, make the drivers for. It's standardised and has been around for a LONG time.

xhi,
spam?

is this 'programming' thread?

i just told you about complete development system in 12Mb, boots in 3 sec, works everywhere "out of the box", but more importantly programs compiled there will also work on any Linux, with or without X, and im talking High-Res, 32bpp OpenGL 3D graphics, "out of the box" too, just unpack & run!

that alone should tickle some 'programmer' bone of yours, eh?

please, what else in a world of Linux can do that,
id like to use it, i think it saves developers time, dont you?



lets say,
if i want to replace, build new X on top of OpenGL, so all that 3D rotating cube desktop and transparency stuff become easy to implement and natural to windowing API,

how could i do it if i need X in a 1st place to use OpenGL?


if you tried to answer my question, maybe you'd come to realise,
that having to install X to use Graphic unit and its fast AGP/3D/ogl/dirX or other capabilities is, indeed, bit silly..
just as installing Midnight Commander to get keyboard working would be insane


i dont mind X having its graphics drivers, but whats so different about mouse drivers or sound or network drivers?

there are console ones, ones for X, some they can share..

but is X not just a graphic interface to linux, just another program that lets you browse your files, and just a "menu" from which you then strat program you really want to use?

how much of it, would you really need if you could open your firefox and abiword in high graphic resolution just by typing its name at command prompt?

wouldn't that be cool?


what say you?




95se,
>"It's standardised and has been around for a LONG time."
yes, i guess, thats the answer, thanks for taking this seriuosly, i think it is - it can save time

however, "standardised" is hardly anything about Linux, (which has good points as well)
but... some specific version of software needs other specific version of some other software, which in turn can pull all sorts of other dependency conflicts with other software all of wich than depends on your distro, version of your distro, changes/updates you made, scripts you changed, hardware you have...

how many "normal" or "could be" Linux users can/could install their graphics driver, or compile and setup anything for that matter(?)
how long did it take you, programmer, to configure your graphic driver(?) did you use nVidia/ATI or open source drivers(?)

would you call that standardised?

in any case, it can/should be better, much better..

I don't see a question just a poorly written advert. Which is why this was identified as spam.

But each to their own...

Personally I'm glad that I have X on my system, with all it's flaws at least it makes i18n possible. As has been said X is more than a graphic card driver. Life is more than OpenGL

I guess technically you don't necessarily need X11 per say but you have to get your frame buffer somewhere. If you are going for small and fast, a full X11 install might not be good but it provides a lot of functionality that you probably wouldn't want to be without when it comes to a writing full featured app or whatever it is you are after.

graemef,
>"don't see a question just a poorly written advert.
Which is why this was identified as spam"

i dont sell anything, therefore dont advertise anything, just found drivers that no one seem to know about, that are great, and i want to tell you about it, as a programmer to fellow programmer.

why, in the world, do you mind?


and i ask:
* why isnt everything like that?
* what exactly is the stopping stone to not have drivers "bundled" with X
* since there is no stopping stone, who is making wrong decisions then?


whats better place to ask this?


last program you made, or any programs you made for linux,
what guarantee (hope) you have it will work(compile) on my Linux, any other Linux for that matter, even if its same distro as yours, same gcc and libs but on another computer?

now, when i tell you - "look, this works on EVERY Linux!"
how does that not concern you as a programmer, whats 'spam' about it?


why do you find relevant to comment writting skills rather than on what was said.

what do you think is answer to my 'title' question?

"don't see a question...",
aye, caramba! look for question marks




but, really,
can anyone that actually took few min time and burned that 12mb iso, and really saw what im talking about comment anything?

if for nothing else, just to confirm its not spam, sheesh!!

The questions on your original post appeared to me (and I think others) rhetorical, was it not so?
Advertising is not the sole domain of commerce, is it now?
Question marks can lie about their intent, can't they?

Do I mind, not really just having a little fun. Please don't take it so hard

Indeed, and OpenGL implementations on top of X (or whatever layer) use these capabilities.

So you are welcome to contribute to these projects to enhance and/or fix them.
From LQ Rules:
There is no advertising allowed in the forums. If you are interested in advertising, please contact us.
Let's say because this is closed source commercial software.