I am a Forever newbie to OS's. I have done Much reading/searching trying to find an OS for Newbies to Linux. And, to get my printer to work with Mint 10. I Like Mint 10; the 60% [estimated] that works.[for me..]
I am hoping that the Software Engineers and Amateur S.E'.s, [Geeks] read this:
I think that I had a Hard-Time learning just enough to use Windows, to limp-along and continue to use it for years.
Software Engineers: The Public needs an Operating System that is "Intuitive"..Meaning; for example: I don't want to open the glove-box door, in my car, to find the ignition switch there. That may be your way of "Making it Your Own" but, that would please few like me.
Linux Users seem to be "Members of an Exclusive Club", mostly. Public Invited under Extreme Hardship. Must study/research/study/apply/experiment with the CommandLine and Code. And; the Majority of the population is probably like me, just use the computer as a tool, for email and internet.
I Ordered a DVD of Mint 14; maybe my printer will work with that one.
If I could get a CD of Pinguy, I would try it.
Out of the five distros on the DVD that was with the magazine "the Best of LINUX" [that included mint 10]...it is the Easiest to work with, and some were awful, for me.
Thanks for reading, Later, Gerald

Because it's very difficult for a "non-geek" to write an informed or substantive review of a Linux distribution.

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Hi, dugan...
That IS part of the point that I was trying to make: Linux is ONLY for GEEKS!, in late 2012..Until Linux Distros become more LIKE WHAT WE have been taught [by Windows] AND More "Intuitive" [a Natural movement, instead of a Learned movement] ...Instead of being More Natural; most of the distros that I have seen, seem to be trying to be even Further away from what I call Intuitive.
That IS "WHY" Windows [and now Mac] are STILL popular, and used by Many more computer users, than All Linux, combined.
To quote just one of many that I have read: "To get any work done; I have to go back to windows".

I have read that there are Over 3,000+ Versions of Linux; and only a few reach the "Top 10", even Reviewed by Geeks. If a Comparison of the top 3 were to go "Head-to-Head" with Windows and Mac BY A NON-GEEK; You Know what the results would be, and why.
Later, Gerald

Exactly this is the point. You have learned to use a computer with Windows OS and now expect any other OS to work exactly the same. If you would have started with one of the many Linux user interfaces (there are quite a bunch) instead and now want to use Windows, would you demand from Microsoft that it would make Windows more like Linux is, so that you don't have to learn something new?
The naturally upcoming car analogy: Both, motorbikes and cars, are transportation systems (like both Windows and Linux are operating systems), but you wouldn't even consider that both should work exactly the same. Why do you that when it comes to operating systems?

Actually, studies have shown that people that have not worked with computers before and should do some simple office work can do that more intuitively with Linux/OpenOffice than with Windows/Microsoft Office.
This has nothing to do with intuition, you have learned to work with Windows before and now it isn't the same in Linux, it is about what you have already learned.

I assume the same problem here. Because most Linux user interfaces don't work like you are familiar with from Windows you assume them not to be intuitive, but you are projecting your learned habits on it, not some intuitive acts.

There are other, magnitudes more probable explanations for that, like Apple's and Microsoft's marketing tactics (that sometimes are in a gray area or even illegal). You should try to count all the Android devices (smart phones, tablets, ...) as Linux, too, (since they are) and the whole thing looks somewhat different.

Currently Distrowatch lists 319 active distributions.

To be exact, only 10 are reaching the Top Ten, otherwise it wouldn't be the Top Ten.

You have to be fair. If you want to make such a comparison you have to make it with users that are not used to Windows or MacOS X, you should do it with users that have not used a computer before. Otherwise it would be a very biased comparison, since people tend to see things as bad that are not working as they are used to.
And if you do the comparison with "fresh" users the outcoming would not be as predictable as one might think.

I would strongly recommend to read this article, it explains many things and may be worth a reading for you: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

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mAm NON-Technical.

Switched to linux around 6+? years ago.

Obtained several free disks each with linux versions, redhat, ubuntu, opensuse, forget the other.

Tried installing each, looked at their desktop and applications - everything was after included.

First one to connect me to internet, update, then let me browse without needing my NIL about Linux technical ability was openSUSE.

Changed to SuseLinuxEnterpriseDesktop when found it had business focus with with 24hour support, and spent next 2 or three years learning SLED - very similar to openSUSE, as openSUSE seems to be testing ground for development, whilst SLED/SLES is more a business critical stability and support focus.


As now retired, switched back to openSUSE to contribute from my NON-Technical view...





Couple of times during first few years had near heart attacks with problems, however SLED support were excellent - and remain so, helping to have me back working very quick :-)

Admit no real crisis, since first two years when couple times things stopped, soon did learn my critical data was secure (separate partition), recoverable (also into other SuSE versions), and other problems experienced resolved fairly quick.


My grandchildren, along with their friends rarely comment on it not being MicrosoftWindoes, cause it works !

What TobiSGD wrote about Windows being learned as opposed to intuitive is completely correct. That is why I ( definitely not a computer geek) was able to switch to Linux without any problems. It was simply because I was willing to learn a new system. If you continue to compare Linux to Windows without recognising that using both is learned, you will never be able to use Linux. If you open your mind to learning a new way, you will be surprised how easy it is to learn. (And wish you had made the switch much earlier.)

Everyone Has a good opinion; to one extent or the other.

Maybe I was Not very clear: I learned Barely Enough about Windows to be able to use it; because: Windows Was NOT "Intuitive!" So; I had to Conform to Microsoft's way of "thinking"...in order to be able to use my computer.
What I am seeing with various distributions of Linux; many seem to be getting even Further away from what I think of as intuitive. That is "OK" with me; just doing "Their" thing; but, so far Mint 10 Is the Best that I have tried, and the ratings reflect that.
Later, Gerald

I would consider my self non geek amongst Techincal geeks but a geek amongst Laye people.

Most people learn something an expect the rest of the planet to be the same then are shocked when see the bloke levitating in the corner humming.

Windows has conditioned the average user to behaive a certain way.

Most people don't analise their behaivour and wonder why they do something a certain way.

Most don't look at a problem they have in acheiving something and seek the "best possible" solution.

Most of their problems are impossed by an external influence then they seek nearest likely solution.

There is a masive difference in outcomes between these two points.

I've been using Microsoft Since Windows 3.1 and realised, once the geeky side kicked in doing html, javascript, .asp and sql that I'd been conditioned to behaive a certain way. That way was Microsoft and restricted to the way they beieved the computing world should work. Which is all about profit. I don't have a problem in the slightest with someone making a profit and actually like to see people make truckloads of money. But while your selling me something and making truckloads of money don't tell me your doing me a favour LMAO This is where the "nearest" solution to a problem comes from, marketing.

Linux is as close to freedom as your going to get. The only self inteerest, by enlarge, seems to be who can build the coolest function, not make the most money. When you have people competing on skill? well your in for something brilliant. Combine that with geeks and you'll get?... Well the rasberry pi some wacky and sensational apps for your phone etc.

I came to linux with a completely open mind, having no pre-conceived ideas other than to give a it fair crack. Well,...

I was fascinated upon learning enough about Linux to be able to customise it anyway I want that it now looks just like a Mac Intuitive!

I now have 2 virtual servers sitting in the background of PC (VirtualBox) with no noticable performance hit on my machine (Bought through an online auction) for $80 serving MYSQL databases and building PHP web pages while typing this post. Freedom! Your free to do what you can think of. That's where laye people struggle. Thinking.

Marketing attempts push emotional buttons and get you make a decision based on perceived feelings about a particular topic.

Because of the freedom linux offers it requires thought about what you want to do.

I don't how many times I get asked...

"What can Linux do"?

"eeerr. Anything you want. You just have to decide what you want to do, and it'll do it!".

The standard response is "Oh I prefer Windows anyway" LMAO

They've surrendered the decision on what they want to whatever Microsoft offers LMAO

I've noticed Linux users to be thinkers. Not always correct, but thinkers. Windows Users are sheep. Mac users mostly pretenders.

That's why theres very few reviews by non geeks. Not enough people think or want to hear thought. They want to be told what do to do, not gven information with which to thik(I'm sitting back now waiting for scoffs)

Thats why there are not many non-geek reviews about linux. Not enough thinkers. Most people want to be told what to do. Not be given information with which think and make up draw their own conclusions and go their own way.

Geeks force thought! Non-geeks pander to the emotions.

Hi XMarine,
I wouldn't call myself a geek by any extent of my own imagination, but I've been using linux exclusively for more than 3 yrs now, and log into windows 7 only a couple of times a year at the most. To be frank, I do this because of compatibility issues with excel. Nobody does excel better than MS and although libreoffice is quite good for most office work, sometimes you just can't get things done with it.
Apart from this I use only Linux and although I've become quite comfortable with using linux, I remember how it was the first month or two. I understand what you're saying, but looking back now, I find that most of the difficulties weren't actually difficulties. It's more like a person who's been chauffered around finding all of a sudden that he has to drive himself, that's all.
So you don't have someone else to do everything for you. whether it's installing drivers or getting codecs, you have to do it yourself. but this does not in any way detract from the functioning of the OS nor is it inherently bad. for example, if you order a treadmill from amazon, you understand that you have to do a bit of "assembling" in order to get it functioning well. You are ok with doing this because getting it from amazon is considerably cheaper than getting it from the store down the street where you pay for having it assembled exactly where you want it. It's the same with linux. You get a much better and more secure system (inherently so and there are any number of sites that will tell you why) and you get it for free, so you do have to factor in a bit of "assembling". I think it's fair, and in any case, it's not that difficult too. It just may seem like a big deal to someone who's never handled a screwdriver before, but when you get right down to it, how difficult is it to put in a couple of screws and tighten a few bolts (only meant as an analogy).
And although my experience with linux is fairly recent, let me tell you that in this short time, I've seen linux mature into a really good OS and a good alternative for MS except when it comes to office software. And for this, just give it some time, and libreoffice will probably beat the pants off MS.
When you're installing a new linux distro, don't have preconceived notions in your head. Think of it as a brand new appliance that you need to tinker with to figure out how to get it working. And hey, within a couple of weeks you'll be talking big words that will make you sound like a geek to others even if you know that you are just at the bottom rung of the ladder.
From where I am now, everybody around me thinks that I'm some kind of a linux hotshot. Only I know how much of the surface I've scratched, and let me tell you, I'm not even past the paint.

LOL! Good Points! I Agree..[mostly.] Because Windows Was Not/Is Not Intuitive; there were Many times the thought occured to just "Throw" it out the window! I never did that; but, there were many times I would just walk away, and cool off, a very frustrating experience=learning Windows.
I'll try a different tactic; and maybe get my point home: Since I do know a lot about cars and motorcycles [as Auto Body Tech on cars; and modified and Roadraced motorcycles] There are Many ways to be "Different"...some are improvements...many are just "Different", and do Not gain in popularity. Like the Chrysler car with the auto. trans. selector =pushbuttons in the dash. Like Saab, with the ignition switch on the console/floor between the seats. Like Lincoln with the sliding covers over the headlights. Those differences did not become popular, they were just "Different".

I think that most of the Software Engineers [Not All!] working or playing with Linux, are Afraid that it might be said that"THAT IS Just like Windows!" THEY Are staying away from That. [mostly] Since most of us did "learn" computers from/on Windows; it just seems natural to be "a little bit" like windows. and they are. I would like to see some MORE Improvements in Linux; it's Already in the background, it just needs evolving and simplifying, for the average ignorant user. [like me] LOL
Later, Gerald

Fair enough. And to substantiate your point, Linus himself has raved against Fedora, while I personally like it. So as you say, many of the differences may just be for the sake of being different and may not actually net you any benefits. But hey, a man likes curves on a woman, even if they don't serve any useful purpose. What say you?

PURE "EYE CANDY!"LOL YES!! The auto manufacturers DO try to "copy" many of those curves, too.Reminds me of my 1955 Eldorado convert's front bumper guards=Very "Suggestive"..
OK; I think that I have figured out what and where the "Problem" is: The "Problem" being that You Software Engineers do not understand why Linux is NOT readily accepted; by the general public [Main Street/Prime Time/ect.] People that;are more or less like me. {Manufacturers TOO!!]

This is going to be a "SHOCKER" to you Geeks/Software Engineers; because You are on the "Inside" looking out; while I am on the Outside looking in, I can "see" the answer to the "Problem." [Maybe and Probably]

Microsoft laid the groundwork; like a surveyor for a road, Microsoft did get "Main Street" TO/ON the Internet. Microsoft does DESERVE "Credit" for That. Unix Linux has; all along, been running things in the Back Room [not "obvious' to Main Street]

I can think of ONLY One MAIN Reason that Windows was DESIGNED to be So Difficult to Learn/use by the "Masses"; and that was to prevent thoughts of Competition To Windows.
So far; in 2012, Apple IS the ONLY Competition to Windows, as far as Main Street is concerned.

By NOW; Microsoft must Really LOVE YOU UNIX-LINUX Software Engineers/Geeks; because You are [Going in circles, doing your "Own Thing"] following the almost EXACT way that was Planned by Microsoft....therefore linux remains as is=As Difficult to learn as the original Windows. [Probably]
LOL and LOL I hate to do that; but, I just Had to Laugh at that: Thinking that You Elite Geeks are doing your own thing; when actually following the plans of Microsoft.....by making Your Distros So Difficult, you are ......beyond understanding.
Later, Gerald

I see Linux; in late 2012, as being like a firecracker...can be lit, result is some light and mostly just noise. Contrast THAT to the same amount of explosive contained in a cartridge , with a primer on one end and a lead bullet on the other==much more power.

Linux is lacking Controlled Leadership; Many of you Software Engineers NEED TO concede Some of your [Doing your Own "Thing"] control to some Leader who can; say:
Communicate and decide exactly what/how and who will do whatever is their talents/interests to Further progress of the Ultimate Distribution; that Main Street people Will Brag On.
I think that maybe only 100 of the 3,000+ leaders would be needed; and guided, to get the work done that is needed.

I DO have a LOT of RESPECT for you Software Engineers, as individuals. As I type this, You Are VERY Disorganized, though.
A "Group Effort" IS going to make a HUGE Difference, in getting away from the "Microsoft Plan" for Linux.[as it presently IS!!!]

I will present a few examples of "Wasted effort", that I have noticed: PCLinuxOS 2010.12 The "Dumbed Down" welcome screen=looks like a kindergarden playground. Then, was "Over Secure"==had to repeat password [too many times] then would not Turn off, when instructed too. Also, would not "Dual Boot" only knows to replace existing OS. NOT GOOD!
fEDORA 14...That "Bullet Hole" in the glass Welcome Screen [Not Good] and Windows-like Over Security OS...similar to PCLinuxOS.
I HAD NO problem replacing it with Mint 10. Mint seems to be More of "On the right Track."

I Do Have Confidence in you Linux Software Engineers. I believe that You can; as an Organized Group: CREATE a Distribution that will be the Opposite of the Microsoft Plan that you are presently on.

That it can be SO EASY to use; that a 5/6 year old child could: In less than 1/2 hour, be: connected to internet/email+- OK, print from email. MAIN STREET WILL LOVE IT; and Microsoft will HATE You!LOL
lATER, Gerald

Have you read my reviews on this site? I've tried to write for the non-geek — I have some experience of writing.

As for Linux being difficult, it's increasing used in schools in countries where they have more sense than money, like Brazil and South Africa.

Do we need the "one perfect distro"? — perfect for whom? Your perfect might be my rubbish, and vice versa.

I probably haven't addressed all your complaints, but frankly you need to achieve a higher standard of literacy before I'm prepared to wade through all your posts.

Hello; David McCann,
You are Correct; in the fact of me not having a College education. It may seem "strange"; but, that actually means that I can think "Out-of-the-Box, and have actually invented some useful things...have you? Please go to the beginning of this thread to start reading, and you may be more informed about what this thread is all about.

My "IDEAL" of a Perfect Linux distrobution, would be:
AS "EASY" to operate as the my above post indicated.
With many applications [that I and other users might want]; with a click of the mouse,can be installed=no problems
With few "Holes" or "Glitches" [Like Windows] like Linux presently.
Initially; would not need but one original welcome screen; if wanted, could be downloaded, installed with a click of a button. I seriously do Not understand the reason for so many welcome screens; for me, as soon as I am on the net, the screen is eclipsed.

ALL OF THE ABOVE; is to get the Public to PREFER Linux.....to what is available now. If you Software Engineers Want to keep on Following the "Path" that Microsoft has laid out for you; then, Linux Distros will remain a mostly private "Club" of users of Linux.

Thanks for reading; later, Gerald