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Old 03-27-2005, 01:52 AM   #46
win32sux
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lyko
I was in another forum recently, and I mentioned to people that I was going to get Slackware, and they all jumped on me. They said that Slackware doesn't teach you any more, it just makes everything a hassle.
well, opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one...

once you use slackware for a while you will have your own opinion about it... ;-)

Quote:
That all I do is copy the kernel image hand by hand
i have no idea what that means...

Quote:
and it doesn't teach me a damn thing.
that's weird, cuz a lot of semi-newbies learn more on slackware in a month than on other distros in a year...

Quote:
They recommended Ubuntu or Debian, because of the usefulness of the apt-get feature. What do you guys think?
on your first post you stated you were using ubuntu, so i'd assume you could answer this question on your own...

personally, i think an automatic transmission on a car is nice, but i still generally prefer a shift stick manual transmission...

slackware is a binary distro that is both fun and challenging and can teach you a thing or two about gnu/linux in general...

of course some people freak-out with slackware... maybe they find it too tough to configure their box with vi... maybe they have become so dependant on automated package systems that having no package automation is like a bad nightmare... or it could be any number of reasons... but that's their reasons - and the reasons people like/dislike a distro are as varied as the people themselves...

if you wanna learn gnu/linux it's a good idea to try all the main distros and get a feel about what each distro's strong/weak points are... learn why they do things differently... then find which one you feel at home with... but don't expect someone on some thread to say something that will magically make some distro your distro of choice without you having even used it... it doesn't work like that... the most we can do on this thread is give you advice and share our experiences...

also, just because you install slackware as an educational tool doesn't mean it has to be your distro of choice for daily usage... you could keep your ubuntu for daily work and tweak your head off with slackware... once you get the hang of slackware, then maybe you'll become a slacker, and even if you don't, it's all good cuz at least you learned a few new things - and a lot of that slackware-acquired knowledge will be distro-neutral...

read-up on slackware (to know what to expect) and then take it for spin!!!

=)


Last edited by win32sux; 03-27-2005 at 02:09 AM.
 
Old 03-27-2005, 02:41 AM   #47
gulo
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Fedora is probably your best bet, and at the moment, esp since it has a 64 ver.

As a relative noob myself, perhaps I can give you a slightly different viewpoint. I've tinkered with a few different distros
and in the end, *once you get it installed and configured* on a modern system (and not from a live cd) you're dealing with about the same beast no mater what flavor it goes by. You're running the same kernel, and either Gnome or KDE for your desktop, and pretty much the same set of core applications like Open Office, Gimp, Gaim, Firefox, etc...

So, then what are the major differences then? The install is a big difference depending on the distro. Fedora has the best install I've seen with Anaconda. Its rather painless, graphical based process. It will even auto partition your HD for you, which is a nice plus. As I remember, SuZE and Mandrake were pretty similar and right up there with Fedora. Debian on the other hand, while a nice distro once up and running, has a rather primitive installer.

Otherwise, is the distro RPM based or will you have to compile from source? Does it have a package manager like Yum or Apt-get with repositories on the net? All things to consider.
 
Old 03-27-2005, 01:45 PM   #48
Lyko
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First off, I do plan to try out all major distros. The thing is, I wanted to start with Slackware, because I thought it would help teach me Linux better than any other distro. Earlier everyone said if I understand Slackware, then I will be able to run most other distros. Is that true? What I want to do is start out with a fairly tough distro, so that I can learn Linux, and then start fishing around for what is best for me. Is Slackware a good distro for this?
 
Old 03-27-2005, 03:10 PM   #49
win32sux
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YES.
 
Old 03-27-2005, 05:18 PM   #50
gulo
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Of course, it is up to you which distro you choose to start with, and much of it depends on your goals. ANY Linux distro
your choose will give you plenty to learn no mater what. It's all Linux. Take a look at Slackware's install process however. Even that is pretty involved. For Fedora or Mandrake, all you need do is burn a few CDs, boot from the first one and then run thru the graphical install process. I'd just be worried that you would become turned off by all the ins and outs of text editing config files in a developer distro rather than a more user friendly distro and then decide Linux isn't worth the hassle.

Also, I'd think you'd be better off with a distro which natively supports your processor type, which Slack doesn't. Also, just because a distro is more difficult to set up and use doens't make for a better learning experience, esp for a noob.
 
Old 03-27-2005, 05:19 PM   #51
Ben2210
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Hi Lyko, I told you a while ago to try Dropline in order to get Gnome for Slackware. In fact, there are other sources which you might consider :

http://gsb.sf.net
http://gware.sf.net

I just read that from the Slackware changelog, which is available here :
http://www.slackware.com/changelog/current.php?cpu=i386

Good luck with Linux,
Ben
 
Old 03-27-2005, 05:23 PM   #52
Lyko
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Quote:
Originally posted by gulo
Of course, it is up to you which distro you choose to start with, and much of it depends on your goals. ANY Linux distro
your choose will give you plenty to learn no mater what. It's all Linux. Take a look at Slackware's install process however. Even that is pretty involved. For Fedora or Mandrake, all you need do is burn a few CDs, boot from the first one and then run thru the graphical install process. I'd just be worried that you would become turned off by all the ins and outs of text editing config files in a developer distro rather than a more user friendly distro and then decide Linux isn't worth the hassle.

Also, I'd think you'd be better off with a distro which natively supports your processor type, which Slack doesn't. Also, just because a distro is more difficult to set up and use doens't make for a better learning experience, esp for a noob.
Ok, that makes a lot of sense. I think I might be better off if I take a more gradual approach, instead of going to what is considered a difficult distro. That being said, I still want to learn, and not go with a distro that doesn't teach me much. I will get the starting distro, and once I have it down, I will move on to Slackware. Would Debian (I know what I said, but I have reconsidered) or Fedora be a good distro to start with?

Last edited by Lyko; 03-27-2005 at 05:27 PM.
 
Old 03-27-2005, 10:18 PM   #53
gulo
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Debian is a great distro and has a lot of the same advantages as Fedora. It uses RPM's, can take care of dependency issues with apt-get, has a 64 bit version. etc. There's a good thread in the "general non-technical" forum about Debian at the moment so you could get more info on from some of the contributors. There is some thought that the stable version of Debian is a bit behind the times from what I can gather, but the "unstable" or cutting edge version is supposed to be really quite good. I've only tried to install it once so I'm not the one to ask really, but the installer seemed primitive. Once it's installed however, it is rock-solid. You might want to check out Knoppix and Gnoppix live CD's which are Debbian based to get a feel for what it would be like to run Debbian and which desktop (KDE for Knoppix, Gnome for Gnoppix) you would rather use in Debbian. Live CD's shoud run ultra fast on your system with a gig of ram too. It's may shock you in fact. Gnoppix ran so damn fast even with half a gig of ram and a Duron on my box.

I'm very partial to Fedora obviously, so take my enthusiasm with a grain of salt. We all have our favorites, just as some of the others in this thread love Slack. Fedora is a very good distro if you like Gnome, but if you're more a KDE type person, I hear there are better choices, like perhaps SUZE. I'd sum up Fedora's advantages as:

Advanced graphical installer that auto partitions your HD (big advantage for someone new to Linux)
Uses RMPS
Uses Yum or Apt-Get to manage packages
Large RPM libraries for Yum and Apt-Get
Can be highly configurable BUT doesn't require a noob to know a lot just to get started.

Downsides:

One of the slower distros, is accused of bloat, and they may be right.
Auto loads services you may not need, which will slow down your box a little.
Ships with crippled MP3 support and no video abilities.

The last drawback are due to fears about violating certain intellectual property claims, but can be easily
rectified after install by setting up YUM to update the box thru Freshrpms.net. You'll just need to re-instal
xmms, and install XINE, MPLAYER, TOTEM and/or Videolan Client.

Whichever distro you go with, I'd say make sure it has those perks I list above. If so, then it should be rather user friendly.
I'd also say stick with the free distros and stay away from anything you have to pay for. Also, I found that some distros
ran better on my hardware than others. Mandrake, while a good distro in general with a large following would always hang on my box while Fedora and Redhat ran well. Some distros have broader hardware support than others...
Hope that helps.

Oh, if you do go with FC3, the bloat issue won't be a problem since you're running one of the highest end computers around.
 
Old 03-27-2005, 11:50 PM   #54
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Does Fedora have a set lifespan? At this point, I think I am either going to open w/ Fedora or Debian, followed by slackware. I do prefer Gnome over KDE, but that is just a preference, and should be weighed lightly. Though the fact that Slackware is dropping Gnome support did have some effect on my decision.
 
Old 03-28-2005, 12:22 AM   #55
gulo
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Set lifespan? You mean like a set of months between major changes? Right now it looks like every 6 to 8 months Fedora will have a new release (like FC1, FC2, FC3, etc...). FC4 is out in an unstable test version right now, with the stable
version due in June. The Fedora Project "supports" the existing stable distro, the prior stable distro, and any existing test distro depending on the cycle. After that, the older releases are transfered to the "Fedora Legacy Project". I'm not all up to speed on exactly what that entails but if you go to http://fedora.redhat.com/ you can do some investigation for yourself. In any case, I don't think there's anything like a "drop dead date" on any of the Fedora releases with the legacy project around.

I like Gnome over KDE myself.

If you go with FC3 right now, then you can try to upgrade to FC4 in a couple months, but upgrading often seems to create
odd little glitches. It might be best to make an extra partition for your home directory so you can do a fresh install of FC4 in June while not losing (or having to back-up and restore) all your data files and documents.
 
Old 03-28-2005, 03:27 AM   #56
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Quote:
Debian is a great distro and has a lot of the same advantages as Fedora. It uses RPM's
I'm not sure if I understand what you mean... Debian has its own package format, deb, which is different from RPM, isn't it ? OK, sorry if this is nitpicking.
 
Old 03-28-2005, 12:21 PM   #57
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I was looking around, and DistroWatch says it has a limited free lifespan, and Ubunbtu has a clearly set lifespan of ~18 months.
 
Old 03-28-2005, 03:11 PM   #58
win32sux
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the new ubuntu will be released shortly. maybe you should just wait for that. personally, i'll be taking it for a spin as soon as it comes out, as i've been wanting to start using debian again on the desktop but debian itself is too stable for desktop use IMHO (and i don't feel comfortable with the testing/unstable branches). ubuntu is a nice desktop debian distro with a great modern package selection. i didn't wanna use ubuntu's first release when it came out cuz they were still very new on the scene, but this hoary hedgehog that's due in april seems like it's gonna rock.

BTW, i'll be dual-booting ubuntu along slackware - once a slacker, always a slacker...

=)


Last edited by win32sux; 03-28-2005 at 05:23 PM.
 
Old 03-28-2005, 10:02 PM   #59
Lyko
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I would rather not have Ubuntu on 2 systems. That leaves Debian, but I am not sure if that is the way to go. I don't want Mandrake or Xandos, because those are apparently too simple, and my goal is to learn as much as possible. I will still be using Slackware, but after I get a little more Linux experience. The only problem I have w/ Fedora is that it has a limited lifespan. I also don't want to run a Live CD. Now I think I might be out of distros to choose from. If there really are no options left, I could run before I walk with Slackware, or run Ubuntu or Debian on two systems.
 
Old 03-29-2005, 02:22 AM   #60
win32sux
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if your goal is to expand your knowledge it would be ridiculous to have both ubuntu and debian as they have the same DNA... you should aquaint yourself with different gnu/linux solutions, not just different flavors of the same solution...

before i used slackware i had only used mandrake, red hat, and debian (if i remember correctly)... the image i had of slackware was probably very similar to your's right now... i wasn't sure if i could handle it... it's reputation was of the most unfriendly binary distro in known existance... "no automated package system?? that's insane!! i need to configure the system using a text editor?? oh my god!!" but you know what?? with a little hard work and an open mind i soon realized that it was actually THE OTHER WAY AROUND...

once you get to know slackware and get rid of all your pre-conceived notions about simplicity you realize that it's way simpler than most other distros... it follows the KISS principle to the letter... the "it's difficult" reputation surrounding slackware is nothing but a MYTH...

sure, the reputation might hold some ground when we are talking about grandma configuring slackware, but when it comes to the knowledge-seeker (like yourself) it's an entirely different ballgame... true, slackware isn't the best choice for most people... but hey, you are NOT most people... you've stated several times on this thread that you want to work with a distro that will actually teach you something and isn't "dumbed-down", that you want to learn as much as possible - you have proven that you are NOT the typical linux newbie... so take the plunge and start slackin' today!! in a few weeks, after you've gotten the feel for it and have tackled all the usual newcomer issues, you'll be SO GLAD you tried slackware!!

Last edited by win32sux; 03-29-2005 at 02:39 AM.
 
  


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