What Distribution for a 2006 HP Pavilion Desktop
 

;)Hi:

I am helping a friend of mine with his HP Pavilion Media Center m1160n Desktop that was purchased about Dec. 2006-

I really do not know what distro to advise him to install.
Any ideas based on the system config and specs outlined below?

The spec's are:
http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/hp-...-31156377.html

BTW, this desktop is not in my possesionso it could take several days if you need me to run a Live Linux DVD/CD and provide you with output.

Any recommendations and suggestions are appreciated.

I would use CentOS 6.4 64 bit for a media center
there should be a kmod-nvidia 173 for that old card
or use the 173.14.37 *.run driver

My friend say's :Thanks ;)

In the process of looking for version 6.4:-
Found this distro in German but my German is really rusty!

Found it--
Download here and it's a torrent.
http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Syste...ntOS-906.shtml

A rather fast mirror
http://mirrors.arsc.edu/centos/6.4/isos/x86_64/

in the EU ,Germany
http://mirror.atrpms.net/centos/6.4/isos/x86_64/

Something 32-bit (less memory usage), any current distro that runs xfce or Gnome 2 (the latter isnt supported anymore so you wont get bugfixes for it so choose wisely). Avoid Gnome 3 or kde 4, those DEs are a bit much for that amount of RAM.

Debian is very good for example (my favourite). Xubuntu and Mint are good also.
The thing with Debian and its descendents is that those have the biggest official repositories (Debian has the largest) and pretty much everything that has Linux version has packages for them even they are not in the repos.

Thanks; John VV!
I click on the first link and am happily downloading the LiveCD.iso-
Looking forwarding to helping and teaching my friend Linux!

Thanks for the wise councel on avoiding Gnome 3 or KDE-

I ran Debian for about a year so I understand why it's your fav. I liked Debian for it's stability!
If my friend doesn't like Centos I'll suggest Mint like you have suggested-:cool:

Thanks; gradinaruvasile!

IMO, the memory for that machine can be picked up pretty cheap on something like ebay ($8 for a 1 GB), so get your friend to buy 2 1 GB DIMMS in order to jump it up to 2 GB, and run a 64-bit version of Debian with a lightweight DE (LXDE or XFCE) or a WM. Huge repositories, and the 64-bit is definitely faster on the same hardware as the 32-bit version if it's not starved for memory. With the lighter weight DE, that desktop should still run perfectly well.

I suggest you stay at 32-bit releases. If you dont have more than 4 GB RAM (even here you can use the now-standard PAE i386 kernels) there is absolutely no need for 64-bit. Why?

- 64-bit native programs use more memory
- some software still require certain 32-bit libraries (Skype etc) and it can be difficult to get them all installed (you have to define multiarch etc). I know from experience. When i installed Debian 64 bit (i actually need it for IOMMU) first time i was surprised by the amount of additional stuff i had to do (find and install i386 libs alongside their 64-bit versions, some not even documented) compared to i386 where everything worked plain and simple.
- THERE IS NO PERFORMANCE difference if you dont use programs that deal with huge amount of data (larger than 4 GB per process) which is typically a server scenario.

Depends on the OS. While Arch Linux and other "686-"optimized distros, I'd agree, something like Debian (that defaults to still being compatible with much much older hardware optimizations) there is a noticeable performance difference between the 32 and 64 bit distros.

Download complete and checking the integrity of that file was a go-;)

Not sure if friend will upgrade the RAM :-

I know for a fact that CentOS 5.6 ( this was some time ago ) ran just fine with 512 meg ram
on the same box with 1 gig ram ScientificLinux 6.4 - 32 bit runs just fine on the 12 year old box ( the Gforce 2 card is unsupported in Xorg however )
but the OP's "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200XT" is supported

but CentOS 6 still has about 4+ YEARS of support

Debian has 686 for long time as default. I used it before and now i have 64 bit. Absolutely no noticeable difference besides higher all around memory usage (and accompanied by more frequent disk activity related to swapping).
I have 4GB RAM (-512mb for video) and run 1-2 VMs etc and i do get to the point where programs are swapped out. It happens more frequently on 64 bit than on 32-bit.
So all in all 64 bit is SLOWER. I need it for a certain virtualization feature (AMD IOMMU) that is available only on 64 bit, but other than that if you have 4 GB (linux uses up to 64 GB just fine even with 32 bit arch unlike Windows' desktop versions) of RAM or less i see absolutely no reason to use 64 bit. 32-bit is lower on memory and easier to set up.

I know that are certain workloads that benefit from 64 bit architecture but those deal with high amounts of data and are used on servers.
On desktops these benchmarks/workloads have absolutely no relevance. CPUs ARE NOT FASTER on 64 bit on typical programs (yes 64=32x2, but that isnt how performance is scaled normally).
Also note that many programs are in fact 32 bit and provide only a wrapper for 64 bit architectures - in fact they use 32 bit libs and work in 32 bit mode.

PS the above is also true for Windows - most programs install in the Poogram Files(x86) folder, meaning that in fact they are 32 bit. Additionally Microsoft made an artificial restriction on Windows desktop versions - removing PAE (which exists on 32 bit server versions) to make people use the 64 bit version which leads to the same issues as discussed above (only Windows tends to bundle everything needed for running 32 bit programs).

My friend likes CentOS he saw it yesterday!
When I install it for him next week I'll let you know how things went.

I will look for the kmod-nvidia 173 or use the 173.14.37*.run that you already advised me on-;)

gradinaruvasile:

You mentioned that:

Is this a bad practice?

I would recommend Vector for a system with ram like that. It's based on Slackware and uses XFCE as its desktop. It uses the Gslapt package manager and has a large repo of available software.
Give it a try if the others don't work out for you.

Thanks ;)

Make sure to download standard not SOHO.
Standard is their regular release with XFCE, SOHO is small office home office with full blown KDE4.

RE: What Distribution for a 2006 HP Pavilion Desktop

I have hp (Pavillion a600n) and hp-compaq (dx2250M) PCs built around the same time. I used Ubuntu 12.04 LTS exclusively. The 64-bit machines get the 64-bit version of the OS. Right now I am using the dx2250M to make this post. It has 2 GB RAM (maximum) and the video capabilities are low by today's standards. It runs YouTube 1080 HD videos just fine.

John

John VV::D


Do I have to add this to the grub.config like this man did in this thread?
As proposed, I added vga=791 into the grub.conf file
http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/...32303&forum=56

I'll keep looking because I think he wants CentOS installed this evening.
Ok; pretty sure it's this:
http://pkgs.org/search/?keyword=173.14.37
http://pkgs.org/centos-6-rhel-6/atrp...86_64.rpm.html

I'll follow these instructions unless you advise me otherwise-
;) Hope it's the right instructions--
Be back after the installation.

for ease and a LOT LESS WORK

i would use the "kmod-nvidia173 " in the base cent repo

that is already configured for the operating system

will output a list of what is available

you should not need to add the vga setting to the boot line unless you DO want a very lo res boot and login screen
or it is a very old CRT vacuum tube screen

Got it I will go to the Centos Repo for that driver,

At his house now trying the live DVD/CD -

Trying to decide if I should use Parted Magic or hope that the live DVD/CD will allow me to shrink his Win's XP Pro partition.

The CRT/monitor; BTW, is an old one that resembles a television.

The CentOS Live 6.4 DVD/CD booted up no problem.

After waiting for about 15 min's the mouse pointer never appeared on the DE.:confused:
Any keyboard typing was unresponsive. I tried several keyboard shortcuts and the keyboard didn't light up.

Why might this be happening; John?

Is there something I could try to make the mouse and keyboard work
after the CentOS Live CD boots?

:scratch:

Is the keyboard and mouse not being recognized because they are that old?

is this what you have on the CD
"CentOS-6.4-x86_64-LiveCD.iso " it is 702 meg image ( yes it will fit on a 700 meg CD - do to changes in names for Mb and Mib )
or
"CentOS-6.4-i386-LiveCD.iso " it is a 692 meg image

or the dvd
-- 32 bit
CentOS-6.4-i386-LiveDVD.iso -- 1.7 gig
-- 64 bit
CentOS-6.4-x86_64-LiveDVD.iso -- 1.7 gig


the CD's are only about 700meg so there is not much on it , and not a lot of hardware support

for installing the live images do have the ability to install to the harddrive
( but the mouse and keyboard are needed )


the 3.5 gig
"CentOS-6.4-i386-bin-DVD1.iso" is the regular install image
the DVD 2 is not needed 99.999% of the time - it has the source files on it

a good page on installing cent -- but just the basics
http://www.techotopia.com/index.php/...out_Installing



as to the mouse and keyboard
i have 6.4 running on a 12 year old box
using the original serial keyboard and mouse ( they were in storage - i used to use a wireless keyboard and mouse for years )

Are yours serial ( round light green and light purple plugs ) or usb1 or usb2

CentOS-6.4-x86_64-LiveCD.iso is exactly what I have on a DVD/CD-

If I can't get the Live CD to run and the mouse and keyboard to be recognized than I obvisously
won't be able to install this distribution for my friend. I'll give it another go

He has the serial 'light green' plugs on the older mouse and keyboard.

Shame I don't have another keyboard and mouse laying around:-

Thank You for the tutorial at techotopia.

use the live dvd
or the install 3.5 gig dvd

live cd's do not have much hardware support

I'll try the 3.5 GB in the afternoon.

BTW I found a 5.41 GB of CentOS here:
http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?pa...133214e5b5a6d4

Brought my friends computer to my house to dis-essemble the entire desktop.

He wants to compleatly purchase a new mobo, processor, power supply, graphics card....the whole nine yards.

I suggested a AMD processor and a Radeon graphics card because I wasn't 100% certain that Nvidia Optimus and the bumblebee-project: bumblebee 3.2.1 would work successfully- I have spoken to others that sware by Nvidia but I don't want to run the risk of helping a friend and only later to find that he becomes irritated with my cousel and the performace of the new system he is building.

It's an old HP Tower 1/2 the size of most of the towers that are on the market now-

Not sure if a Gigabyte or Asus mobo is what I should suggest.
Not sure what wireless NIC to suggest either-

Any suggestions are welcome for a new build.;)
Thanks in advance :D

on a desktop Optimus should not be an issue .Unless you are putting a laptop "chip" on the mobo and not using a full 3d card

if you are using a laptop chip then go with AMD/ATI

In my opinion the Nouveau driver dose not work
i have two machines with two very different nvidia cards and they over heat because the nouveau driver dose not turn on the fan

Now the nvidia.run driver , i have not had any issues with that .

Its possible (almost likely) that the HP Pavilion Media Center m1160n will have a 'non-standard' motherboard or rear panel size. If it does that means that if you want to put a standard mITX, mATX or ATX motherboard in there you will need to do a lot of chopping on the case, place and die-tap new mounting holes, etc..

Mount hole pattern and sizes can be found here-

http://www.silverstonetek.com/techta...a&tid=wh11_008

There are printable versions of the mounting hole patterns if you look around.

But is really not worth the bother for 95%+ of users. To basicly chuck the entire system apart from the case isnt even that cost effective, you may be able to get more for the system as it stands than it would cost to get a nice new case.

Lots and lots of really nice looking mATX and mITX cases around, if you or someone else wants a small case.

Optimus isn't something you have to worry about with desktops..in most cases at least. There was a move by nVidia to have optimus on desktops (offically it was 'Synergy' though there were manufactuers using instead 'opitmus for desktops') but it never gto very far at all. I've only ever seen it on some big manufacturer (HP, etc.) small form factor desktops.

CPU wont matter much, If its being used as a media centre. nVidia VDPAU (nVidia hardware video decoding) is generally better than XvBA (AMD hardware video decoding). AMD is getting better, but I'd probably still get a nVidia card for media centre use.

If its just goinjg to be hooked up to a TV and/or used to stream video or audio, you wont need a powerful expensive CPU. The old junkbox that I use for my media centre is a single core AMD 64 3000+/1GB DDR1/nVidia 8400GS and with VDPAU it plays 720p prefectly, no stutters, dropped frames, etc.. I think it should do 1080p just as well, but I haven't tried, I dont have any 1080p content to test with. BTW, do not get a 8400GS, they are old, can have various different GPUs...G210 is a better choice, they cost about the same as 8400GS and always have the 'best' GPU that can sometimes be found in the 8400GS. I'd porbably evn get something a newer than a G210 depending on the budget.

Even more choices than just gigabyte or asus.

Considered a powerline LAN adapter? I dont like wireless networking myself, so maybe that is my anti-wireless bias coming out....

Thanks; John VV

Cascade:

Thanks for all of the good information.

I will have my friend read all that you have posted because I'd hate to see him waste time and or going ahead with un-necessary spending--
I'll jump online and find the mATX and mITX cases so he has an idea.

If it were me but it's not I would just build a brand new system-

Advice taken-;)
Thanks for the warning on the 8400GS:-

How would I know how many watts the power supply should be for the Nvidia card that he chooses?
He's a Playstation Gamer and he may want to play PS3 games on his new build.

Depends on the video card used. For GT cards, its not going to matter much, they have fairly low power draw. I havent seen nVidia suggest more than 350 watts for any of the GT series cards, and even the 350 watt suggestion is mainly because of people using nasty 'yum cha' power supplies. The most power hungry of teh GT cards is still going to draw 75 watts or les absolute maximum (as they have no external power connectors, and 75 watts in the max that can be delivered over the PCIe bus)

Big 'gamers' cards, GTX series, haev much higher power supply requirements. They arent a great idea in a ITX or mATX case though, besides having a huge power draw they also output a lot of heat.

I had a look at the PS3 emulator site-

http://ps3.emulatorx.info/system-requirements.html

'1 GB' doesnt really say that much, and pretty much all current cvads are 1GB or more.

If you can, try running it on some other system(s) so you can get an idea of performance. If you can get away with a GT card, it makes the system cheaper, coolera and quiter..and its quite possible that a GT card like a GT630 will have enough power to run the PS3 emulator well.

This is what I am concerned about--

That old power supply is 250 watts. If he puts a 350 or 550 Corsair (what he's looking at) inside of that small tower that could be a heating issue. That's doesn't seem good at all-
The width of the back of the tower is 7 inches.
Would a newer power supply fit?

The old graphics card is a Nvidia Ge Force FX5200XT AGP.

I could try running it on my desktop system; however, won't the new card over-ride my on-board graphics?

Its impossible to tell if a new power supply will fit from just the width, sorry.

It it did fit it would output less heat than the old HP power supply. Computer PSUs dont draw as much as they can output, they only use as much power as is needed by the system. + inefficiency.

In general, older PSUs have lower efficiency than newer ones. The PSUs in those system tend to be quite inefficienct.

If the PSU is 60% efficienct, you will need 100 watts to deliver 60 watts to the system and 40 watts for the new PSU will be converted to heat.

So for a realistic max draw for the system, say 100watts, the old 60% efficiency PSU would need about 170 watts with 70 watts being created as heat. For the new 80% efficiency PSU you would only need 125 watts with only 25 watts being created as heat.

If its being replaced, that doesnt really matter.

You could try running the PS3 emulator on a system with the FX5200, and it might even work at least with some games. The FX series are old, old old, and any current video card you will find will be faster. The FX5200 was slow even when it was current, and video card technology marches on.

For example, what used to be a 'top of the line' gamers card like the GT88800 with a TDP (thermal design power, basicly the max possible power draw) of 125watts is slower than a current GT640 with a TDP of 75 watts.

Ummm...new card? Why put put the FX5200 in your system?

I cant recall what system you are runing, but if its in any way new it wont have a AGP slot. Something in any way curent would give you a better idea of what is required, the FX seires are so old its hard to compare them with any current video cards.

You meant try the Emulator on another system for me to get an idea of performacne- (post #34)
I misunderstood--

I'll find out today what mobo, processor, power supply and etc. he is going to purchase or at least consider--


Thank you for the information on watts, efficiency and how that works now.
Sounds like much better materials are used today than when he orginally purchased that Media Center in 2007--

Looking here at power supplies-
http://www.corsair.com/power-supply-units.html

Took everything out of the old HP case.

The mobo was close to impossible to get out and my friend had to practically break that corner of the board to get it out.
After a few min's of pulling on the corner it finally gave way.
Unfortunately my friend says; "he is done with it, he has had enough"

Here is a pin like screw that was holding that particular corner of the board in place:
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...tml?sort=3&o=0
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=25

The Power Supply was near to impossible to get out;as well. HP designed it so that you had to take off the front casing and take out the drives to move the power supply forward.
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=26

Having said that; there isn't anything more I could help him with-
BTW, I did mention before the disesembly that it would be better to just do a fresh build.

If anything I have learned a lot and a fresh build is the best practice.;)

Special thanks to John VV and Cascade9! :D

Additional pic's from dis-esembly--

http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=25
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=28

The hdd was attatched to a metal casing of some sort that I have never seen--
I wondering if these hardware parts could be sold?
And if so where would one begin?
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=26
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...DDBay.jpg.html

Sorry it's a blurry pic.
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=27

Newer releases of the open source radeon drivers also use VDPAU for video acceleration and with the 3.11 kernel line those GPUs finally get dynamic power management, but if you use the proprietary drivers Nvidia is the way to go.

Forget about emulating a PS3 on a PC, I have yet to find an emulator that is not a scam to get likes on Facebook and that actually works. It may still need some years for that, I doubt that you can emulate a 3.2 GHz Cell CPU with 6 SPEs reasonably fast even on modern PC hardware, not even thinking about the rest of the hardware.

Thanks TobiSGD!

You could try selling some of the box hardware on ebay or similar sites, but I'd doubt you'd get any takers in most cases.

Aboutt he only time yuo can sell things like that is in cases where there is a possible expansion from instralling hardware from anotehr case (eg, if there is enough space to install another HDD but there is no way to get it to bolt in without a 2nd HDD caddy, and the 2 caddys are the same)

I havent tried VDPAU with the radeon drivers, I should give it a try sometime.

Sorry that I didnt check the PS3 emulator better. You appear to be corect and there is no way to play a PS3 game with them currently, and probably for quite some time in the future.

I tried to try it, but you need Mesa 9.2 for that and I wasn't yet able to get that working correctly on my Slackware systems. When I have more time I will definitely look more into that, but time is currently something that is not available here.

Having said that:
I could give it a try on ebay and see if anything comes of it-

Thanks