vista booting with grub (yes I searched the fora)

DLGandalf · 02-28-2007, 02:53 PM

I had a dual boot system with debian and XP, which worked fine

couple of days ago I installed vista, Vista (of course) changed the MBR, but I can almost dream how to put grub back in place. Now here it comes

On all the fora it's said that vista boots the same as XP in grub's perspective. So I got a knoppix cd and did the usual chroot and grub-install command, after that a reboot
now grub is back in action, to have a little more freedom I use the CLI from within grub and type the following commands:

rootnoverify (hd0,0) # is the vista partition I'm sure because no other partition works
makeactive
chainloader +1
boot

my keyboard leds light up and the pc reboots ?!

I used the vista dvd to ensure the vista-partition-bootsector was still intact, but even then a automatic reboot occurs

when I install the vista mbr everything works like a charm except for linux

I hope someone has a solution

PTrenholme · 02-28-2007, 03:31 PM

<rant>
Did you read your Vista EULA? I believe one of its provisions is that it can only be boot by its own MBR. Another one is that Microsoft (and any program "approved" by Microsoft) can take complete control of what used to be called "your computer."

Basically, as I understand the EULA, you have, by installing Vista, agreed that "All my computer are belong to Microsoft."

So, don't complain. Just "relax and enjoy it."
</rant>

DLGandalf · 02-28-2007, 03:35 PM

I didn't start a thread to hear that it's my own fault and other linux-fundamentalist-preaching, I know other people can get it to work, why can't I

I dó want to use linux and eventually as my only os, but I still need windows sometimes. I need the software and sometimes just for convenience

PTrenholme · 02-28-2007, 03:57 PM

Sorry, I had to vent a bit.

I (obviously) don't use Vista, but -- if its really using the NT loader -- do you have a C:\boot.ini file you can edit? Can you use dd to copy the GRUB boot sector to a file, and put that file on Vista's C:\ drive.?

If you can do all that, perhaps you can alter the boot.ini file so you can start GRUB from the Vista OS selection menu. (I had to do all that with this Gateway laptop which insists on booting XP, and complains if XP is not present on its hard drive.)

Here's what my boot.ini looks like:

Code:

$ cat /mnt/WinXP/c/boot.ini
[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=C:\linux.bin

[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
C:\linux.bin="Fedora"

And the linux.bin file was created by a dd if=/dev/hda of=/mnt/WinXP/c/linux.bin b=512 where, obviously, you could output to a USB stick or floppy and read it into Vista from there if you haven't mounted you Vista file system in write mode. (If you can. It works for XP, but, as I said, I don't know about Vista.)

DLGandalf · 03-01-2007, 02:44 AM

vista doesn't work with ntldr anymore, it's called bootmgr
but shouldn't make a difference for grub ( after a million tutorials I can say that for sure). But trying to include linux in the vista bootloader isn't going to work I think
no tutorials on the net either, well there is a program called (xxxx)-bcd which can add a linux boot to the list, but i really want to use grub

pixellany · 03-01-2007, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PTrenholme

<rant>
Did you read your Vista EULA? I believe one of its provisions is that it can only be boot by its own MBR.
</rant>

Is this true?? wow!!

pixellany · 03-01-2007, 06:04 AM

Here is one thread that may be useful--it has links to others also.

Saikee will know as much about this problem as anyone

PTrenholme · 03-01-2007, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixellany

Is this true?? wow!!

No, not really. I was just ranting.

But it is rather draconian.

saikee · 03-01-2007, 08:19 AM

I didn't have any problem with booting Vista with Grub. I even tried to boot two of them as indicated in this thread.

However I got my Vista through free download at the early stage. There has been one report I read saying the Vista boot loader might have been subsequently altered when Vista was first sold to the public.

There is no way I would pay money to waste my time to learn a boot loader that has been written to boot only Vista. If Vista really has its own boot loader to prevent other systems in the PC it has already lost the battle because Grub can be put in a floppy, a CD or an external hard drive to boot whatever we can install.

I really think all my time learning MS systems have been a waste. If I learn one Linux boot loader I can boot 100 systems and to me that is real knowledge worth to learn. Linux teach us to go from A to B in a straight line. MS systems we have to learn to navigate hurdles and traps the Vendor implanted into the system just protect its commercial interest. This may work for people willing to be treated as second class PC users and have no objection to follow sheep.

Anyway I could not offer any advice until I get a free current Vista to try it out.

I doubt the claim is true that bootmgr has been modified to prevent other boot loaders to boot Vista It is a fact that the new Vista keeps a copy of the MBR and can refuse to boot if it has been changed. Therefore the backup facility inside the Vista should be disabled so that bugger isn't ask to conduct the verification process of the partition table at every boot up.

The Vista is slightly easier to salvaged than the old XP as its installation CD has a facility to retore the Vista MBR.

whirrr · 03-02-2007, 10:30 AM

I had recently bought a shiny new hp home media system from costco, with vista pre-installed. After attempting to install suse10.1 (re-partioning to share the same drive), Vista refused to load. I tried the recovery procedure from the bios...nope. HP chose not to include a recovery cd, instead expecting you to purchase one on-line. Glad I bought it from costco and was able to return it. So, now I have a shiny new gateway from costco. I bought a 2nd sata drive. I'm thinking of having grub use a bootable cd, or sd card, so as not to have to return this machine too. doable? an obvious screw-up with the hp?

saikee · 03-02-2007, 11:06 AM

whirrr,

I do think booting a Linux off an external USB device isn't a problem nowadays.

A Linux user can place Grub on a floppy or a CD to boot up a PC without the use of the MBR. Grub can then be directed to boot operating systems in the external USB devices. Thus even a USB device isn't bootable on a power up as long as Grub can recognise it at boot time the operating systems inside the USB devices can be fired up.

There is no technical hurdle to boot opserating systems off USB devices and at the same time not touching the internal hard disk. The matter is more to do with the choice of distros as some are ready-made for such applications while others may not. In the 12 systems I installed in one weekend 6 out of the 9 Linux run immediately after installation. The 3 that didn't work were eventually persuaded to boot too.

exvor · 03-02-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirrr

I tried the recovery procedure from the bios...nope. HP chose not to include a recovery cd,?

None of the manufactures for the most part include a recovery dvd or cd you have to create one via the software that is included with your windows. READ THE DOCUMENTATION... And from having both a HP and a Gateway I would say that was a downgrade. Gateway have horrible screens horrible sound and no where on there web page to download drivers.... IMHO

As far as vista is concerned I had the RTM version for a short bit and had no issues booting both Linux and vista on the same pc. I will also be receiving a free upgrade to vista but considering that windows will one day be totally gone from my hp laptop it will probably just collect dust in the box