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Old 07-11-2003, 09:04 AM   #46
Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Malden, MA
Distribution: Debian, FreeBSD, gNewSense, Ubuntu, Ututo
Posts: 73

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Let There Be Light

Hey browny_amiga.

Thank you for your reply. Alas, someone has finally seen the points I was making a while back. I have since given up on GNU/Linux ever being an operating system that will ever provide hand-holding for the newbie, and have decided to continue to use Windows XP as my main operating system until I will be able to figure out all of the Un*x commands I need to know in order to be productive with my PC.

When GNU/Linux and/or *BSD become operating systems that can be productive on the desktop throughout everyday use, then I will happily dump my Windows installation and use a Free Operating System.

Example: At home, I do not have high-speed Internet. It's not available in my area just yet. Until that time, I'm forced to use dial-up. Right now, I'm an AOL subscriber. The only way I've seen so far to be able to connect to AOL with my GNU/Linux installation is with a program called pengaol. I downloaded it onto a zip disk and brought it home. I untarred the files, and sat there, feeling like an idiot. The readme was absolutely horrible, and I couldn't get the program to work even a little bit. I was being told I was going to have to recompile this.c and that.h. It was an absolute nightmare. I've had programming experience in the past, but it's been through school using compiler suites like MSVC++. Command-line compiling? Switches? What are these other commands? Make?! AAAAAH!

In the meantime, I'm acting as a guest speaker in institutions that would like to know more about Free Software and how it can be beneficial to everyone. I am a firm believer in Free Software. I think that with enough education, enough people will become drawn to it and it will be developed into the grand splendour I know it will one day become.

Thanks again. Your post has provided valuable insight to my situation.
Old 07-11-2003, 10:31 AM   #47
Registered: Dec 2001
Location: /mnt/UNV/Mlkway/Earth/USA/California/Silicon Valley
Distribution: Kubuntu, Debian Buster Stable, Windoze 7
Posts: 684

Rep: Reputation: 56
Well, I am glad to be of service.

This is a little tough for the beginning (one programm only that does it for you, you need this one to make it work), better for the beginning try things that there is an aboundance of choice available, like editor, cdburners, etc...

I have to admit that compiling application was very intimidating in the beginning to. I always stuck to .rpms, which is very comfortable. Still today I prefer them, eventhough I know that compiling get's the stuff done more effiently. (compiles the stuff for your cpu and system, i.e. tailors it perfectly)
I prefer RedHat, because it is best known to me, and these are the people that invented RPM, but many other distributions use it too. You can just install an application with rpm -ivh applicationname.rpm and remove it with
rpm -e applicationname
the options -ivh btw stand for: Install Verbose and Hashmarks (shows little hashmarks while installing, duh!!)

If you want a linux system that is easy to use, I suggest you take a look at SuSe Linux. They seem to be most interested to make it for the desktop, simple and easy to handle with lot's of guis and installers that do stuff automatically for you.

Another tip if you want to come clean of windows:
Check out for crossover office.
It costs like 50$, but is a FINE implementation of wine that runs M$ Office, Photoshop, quicken and some other windows programs like a champ. I use it for Lotus Notes (for work) and it works like a delight. Did not boot one of my laptops into windows for months.
Otherwise, wine will soon reach version 1 and with that, will really become usable I guess. also includes a wine version, called codeweavers wine (which is included in SuSe Linux) and that has a graphical config tool that makes things easy to get into.

If you want to read some crazy sh*** about Microsoft, read this:
It is a humongous Article, about everything, but read the parts about Microsoft. Scary and crazy at the same time and it is even documented by newsarticle links.

If you got a problem with linux, ask the people in here. They know EVERYTHING, well almost. They have helped me tremendously, I solved 1001 problem with them and I am still flabergasted and astonished at their skill and knowledge. Linux people in general seem to be very very well educated in their OS compared to users of other systems.

And, how other people here sometimes write in the signature:
It helps by huging your penguin daily!
Old 07-11-2003, 01:56 PM   #48
Registered: Jan 2003
Location: I'm all in your mind!
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 248

Rep: Reputation: 30
browny_amiga, that artcle about M$, IS some crazy sh* ( It raised the hairs on my back.... I think I'll have problems sleeping tonight...

I knew about the Palladium chip and M$ monopoly, but I didn't think it was that serious! If this keeps up and M$ wins the battle, I'm giving up computers... I'll go somewhere far away, on a mountain and start raising sheep for a living! That will be much more comforting than selling my soul to M$...

I have a question though... What is the Open Source community doing about this?
I know the Open Source community is not as powerfull as M$, and doesn't have "gazzillions" of dollars, but it can create good software (that is free!).

I'm thinking that the Open Source community should make a stand against M$'s business practices... Something like: when M$ launches Longhorn that only runs on Palladium chips, the Open Source should launch a system/platform that enables the user to do the same things, but without the extra chip and price tag. The thing is the Open source community should be one step ahead M$, not limit itself to 'make windows equivalents for linux'. I think that if Sun would have created StarOffice before M$ had the chance to develop M$ Office, Sun would have had the upper hand. Why can't this happen now? If we wait any longer, it might be to late... We'd have to reinvent the computer...

And I don't really understand these licence agreements and copyright laws... I mean, if I buy something (a nail, an apple or a software program) I should be able to do whatever I want with that program! I must be allowed to hammer that nail into my head if I want to, to give away the apple to somebody else, and to reverse engeneer that program...
However, I understand limitations concerning the use of the product by other people (eg. I can't hammer the nail in somebody else's skul, I can't shove the apple on somebody else's throat, and I can't slap another name to the program and say it's mine!)

Getting back on topic, I want to say that I was too a windows user, but I quit when I felt I was no longer in control... Then I saw linux as something new and now, (after about 4 years of self learning) I can say I SEE its real beauty and logic... Now windows just seems like a joke.

Despite this, I still like ol' MS-DOS & Win3.1... Maybe they didn't do much, but they gave me control over the system... The thing is M$ assumes that every user is a complete idiot and tries to make its programs idiot proof! So this is why some people who understand this are fed up with windows and decide to take matters in their own hands. They might get dirty, but with determination they will succeed in their task!

IMHO M$ is going on a path to distruction. It has a chance for its plans to succed, but knowing M$, it will not settle just for 'monthly fees' from its (l)users, so will do something else... And sooner or later it will make a big mistake and collapse onto itself (much like a black hole!)
However, I hope we don't get there... I can't imagine a world without windows like I can't imagine a world without linux... You need a bad guy to see who's the good guy, no?

Great thread, guys!
Old 07-14-2003, 08:32 AM   #49
Registered: Dec 2001
Location: /mnt/UNV/Mlkway/Earth/USA/California/Silicon Valley
Distribution: Kubuntu, Debian Buster Stable, Windoze 7
Posts: 684

Rep: Reputation: 56
Well, M$ is not going to die. Linux is not going to die. The world it not that extreme. It is gradual.
M$ is not going to die because they are to clever. You know why they are so strong? The do one thing well:
Selling and Marketing (the art of blinding you with stuff they want you to believe).
Product quality is unimportant.
They are too big to die, they have too much money.

Linux cannot die neither, because it is a AIDS virus for Windows: there is no cure. Linux is no company that can be bancrupted, linux is no idea that can be stolen, linux is nonprofit, the anticrist for any profit hungering company.
Linux is out of the economy, therefore it cannot be killed.
It is fueled by idealsm, not by money. ;-)

I wonder though what is going to happen in the future. M$ is eating more and more, unsatisfyable. They do not know "peacefull business coexistence", every partner will later be a delicious dish for them.
So what I am wondering is, who is going to stop them? The US government is the only ones that can, it is after all, a beast in their juristiction. It is prooven that Monopolies hurt societies as wholes, sending money to the underserving few (they don't not work of it, that is what Monopoly means) and rob it from the big masses.
Every cent gained from such a monopoly is a bad cent, because it further hardens the monopoly, supporting it with marketing and power that makes sure things don't change.
In theory, one such company will one day own a whole country, have more power than the government. That might be very dangerous. So a government should prevent it, like done with Bell (when that thing became too big) or standard oil (they were all hit and split into many small companies).
The Bush administration obviously has no interest to harm a large company, but others might follow after that again are putting the good of the many higher than the good of the few.

To me linux is deliciuos for 3 reasons:
1. Let's me get work done more efficinently, plus I don't like a computer tell me what I can do or not (controll)
2. I like the penguini tux, what a nice lovely mascot for a OS!
3. Linux is unkillable by M$. I love what makes them suffer.
Old 07-14-2003, 01:14 PM   #50
Registered: Jan 2003
Location: I'm all in your mind!
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 248

Rep: Reputation: 30
You have a good point, browny_amiga... I sure hope it will be true...

As for M$ and the US government, I believe M$ pumps enough money in the already corrupt government, so the have nothing to worry about... But sooner or later their money may not do the trick. (I just hope its sooner!)

Why I like linux?
1. Because its cryptic! (I like cryptic things... like linux & MS-DOS... They're not for everyone...)
2. It lets me make mistakes (Which is an important part in learning)
3. It has a different filosofy than M$
Old 07-19-2003, 01:04 AM   #51
Registered: Jan 2003
Location: I'm all in your mind!
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 248

Rep: Reputation: 30
One more thing... Why does anyone think Windows is user-friendly? Just because it has built in check boxes and the user hardly has to type in anything?
For example, the other day I had heaps of problems with windows on a P4 @ 2.4GHz with 256Mb RAM, 80G HDD and GeForce 4MX440...
I installed WinXp, configured it a bit, installed GTA3, fired it up and the whole thing crashed! I changed drivers, added SP1, it crashed again! This time it was more serious... Windows would crash when booting up (well, this isn't unheard of in the windows world! ). I had to reinstall from scratch... Of course, the same thing happened no matter what drivers I chose. It even crashed when copying files!
I changed the memory, power supply, but with no change... I tried a Knoppix cd and it worked great! I used it for 2 hours, increased the load on the cpu, but everything was dead stable!
I started windows and the whole thing came crashing down!
So, I said to myself, WinXp is too messed up. So I installed Win98 only to find out (at the end of the installation) that there's a windows protection error in ndis and I need to reinstall... Fortunatelly I realised that the processor was too fast for win98, so I had to install winxp again!
Naturally I wasn't stable... I crashed when I moved the mouse a little faster! Fortunatelly I managed (after 3 unsuccesfull tries) to get to Control Panel-> Event viewer and I saw a very 'user friendly' logged error!
It said there was an error 0x0000009c and a memory dump.
Now I know exactly what went wrong!

I had to get to the internet do a google search and I was relieved to see that there were matches! It seems that this error is caused by System bus error, Memory error, Cache error, vendor specific error, etc... Now I can change the motherboard and hopefully it will work!

But it took me 8 hours to see this! And linux worked like a charm! If linux had failed, I'm sure I would have found out sooner what the problem was!

Now, in my opinion, windows is far from being user friendly... Maybe it depends on what kind of user you are... I, for instance, believe that I must control the computer, not the other way around...

Please forgive my outburst, but I was under a lot of stress last night!


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