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-   -   Thoughts on Linus taking a break from the kernel. (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/thoughts-on-linus-taking-a-break-from-the-kernel-4175638743/)

ChuangTzu 09-19-2018 01:34 PM

Thoughts on Linus taking a break from the kernel.
 
Since the original thread was closed under Linux News, perhaps it could be continued here as a discussion of the implications of his announcement, why you think its happening etc...

Reference the original thread here: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...el-4175638547/

Let's try to keep this one on topic, since the other thread was deemed "wildly off topic".

hydrurga 09-19-2018 01:50 PM

I am of course unaware of the circumstances, only being able to go on what I've read, but I sincerely reckon that he just needs a break. It's always good to do that from time to time anyway, to recharge batteries, step back for a better overview, and also to test how well the system survives without him.

The complicating factor is the announcement that he wants to change his behaviour. That came very much as a surprise to me. Times are definitely changing and it's possible that he now feels that there is a greater chance of conflict within the kernel community if he carries on as normal. There were already signs that he was conscious about the growing reaction against his attitude, e.g. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/1...rong_language/. I guess that he finally decided that he should change for the good of the community.

ChuangTzu 09-19-2018 02:01 PM

Linus Leaves Linux, A New Code Of Conduct and Community In Conflict
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3CbAAwG8dk

Ref: https://thenextweb.com/developerstor...de-of-conduct/
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/8a104f8b5867

hydrurga 09-19-2018 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuangTzu (Post 5905409)

Just watching it now, but I'm not appreciative of the title "Linux leaves Linux". To leave implies some form of permanence - it's clickbait sensationalism and that's not a good thing.

individual 09-19-2018 02:16 PM

There is something that I have been seeing recently from open source projects that puzzles me. Here is an example from the commit on Github:
Code:

In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as
contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and
our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body
size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and
expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality,
personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I have never seen anyone be harassed for their "personal appearance, race, religion, sexual identity, etc." over a commit to an open source project. In fact, I don't know what any of those characteristics have to do with an open source project. It isn't necessarily a bad thing to have a code-of-conduct, but language like that does more harm than good, in my opinion.

hydrurga 09-19-2018 02:24 PM

This is what I think is over the top, and where I don't want to see kernel development heading:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...itical_pogrom/

Quote:

Last week Victor Stinner, a Python developer who works for Red Hat, published four pull requests seeking to change "master" and "slave" in Python documentation and code to terms like "parent," "worker," or something similarly anodyne.

"For diversity reasons, it would be nice to try to avoid 'master' and 'slave' terminology which can be associated to slavery," he explained in his bug report, noting that there have been complaints but they've been filed privately presumably to avoid being dragged into a fractious flame war.

individual 09-19-2018 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrurga (Post 5905421)
This is what I think is over the top, and where I don't want to see kernel development heading:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...itical_pogrom/

Something similar was brought up with Redis a couple of years ago.
To stay on topic, I think it's good that Linus is taking a break, but I hope that Linux won't change for the worse.

hydrurga 09-19-2018 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by individual (Post 5905426)
Something similar was brought up with Redis a couple of years ago.
To stay on topic, I think it's good that Linus is taking a break, but I hope that Linux won't change for the worse.

Yup, sorry that I went off-topic. I had just finished listening to the video that ChuangTzu posted and that video talks not only about Linus' decision but also about the new Linux Code of Conduct, the latter of which reminded me of the Python changes.

Thanks for the link - an interesting read.

ChuangTzu 09-19-2018 02:48 PM

That wasn't off topic at all...

Now for a little sensationalism...or is it....
What happens if Linus leaves for good?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntFsfK1zn5A

ondoho 09-20-2018 01:22 AM

i think what mr torvalds himself says is enough explanation (at least for me):
Quote:

This is not some kind of "I'm burnt out, I need to just go away"
break. I'm not feeling like I don't want to continue maintaining
Linux. Quite the reverse. I very much *do* want to continue to do
this project that I've been working on for almost three decades.

This is more like the time I got out of kernel development for a while
because I needed to write a little tool called "git". I need to take
a break to get help on how to behave differently and fix some issues
in my tooling and workflow.

syg00 09-20-2018 01:27 AM

Who is this fella anyway ... :scratch:

ondoho 09-22-2018 01:46 PM

i just spent a long afternoon browsing reddit, where all this CoC stuff is spreading like a wildfire... mostly connected to Coraline Ehmke.
Looking at some of Ehmke's output, I am appalled.
I don't care what sex, gender or minority s/he belongs to, or me saying that is horribly discriminating or not PC, but s/he seems to be an absolutely horrible person.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CoralineA...63099746643968
https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941
etc.

just fyi, it seems that greg kroah-hartman implemented this CoC into Linux, at the same time Linus posted the above quoted message.
whether there's a causality in either direction, i cannot say, but these are the only hard facts i see regarding the topic. the rest is speculation & mudslinging.

during my roaming i bookmarked this article. interesting, if a little older.

hazel 09-22-2018 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ondoho (Post 5906635)
i just spent a long afternoon browsing reddit, where all this CoC stuff is spreading like a wildfire... mostly connected to Coraline Ehmke.
Looking at some of Ehmke's output, I am appalled.
I don't care what sex, gender or minority s/he belongs to, or me saying that is horribly discriminating or not PC, but s/he seems to be an absolutely horrible person.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CoralineA...63099746643968
https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941
etc.

OMG! Is she for real?

ChuangTzu 09-22-2018 03:26 PM

This is real, the SJW's are forcing Linus out or at least trying to, look at this twitter post from Caroline:

https://publish.twitter.com/?query=h...4&widget=Tweet

She is taking credit (bragging about) for Linus leaving.

Ser Olmy 09-22-2018 05:31 PM

From Linus' statement:
Quote:

I very much *do* want to continue to do this project that I've been working on for almost three decades.
Well, that's not going to happen if people like Coraline Ehmke are given any sort of influence at all over the project.

Kernel devs are now threatening to revoke the license to their code/commits if they are ousted from the project based on violations of this deliberately vague "Code of Conduct". I can understand them; that's certainly what I'd do under those circumstances. If that happens to a few notable developers and they rescind their license, it would quickly lead to total chaos and could easily derail the whole development process.

In my opinion, unless someone with authority comes in and nukes this nonsense from orbit pretty soon, the future of the Linux kernel is more than a little uncertain.


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