This is a general statement not regarding any previous post at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I simply don't like Redhat's decision, and I think anyone who follows redhat will be bad news.

I honestly think that what Redhat did will hurt the Linux community, but then this will turn into a Redhat thread.

Windows has been good for me.....and so has Linux.

The instant that Windows and Linux are somewhat similar in cost. Linux will lose the game.

Microsoft has the power to drop prices like mad. I don't like that at all. Companies that make a version called enterprise Linux that will then force you to pay (if you don't wanna run the "testbed" version) are making a mistake. What happens with us will happen in the real world. People here are jumping ship with Redhat. They are going to other distro's. If corporations see this happening....and then they see Novell's SuSE start charging for Enterprise Linux, I think it will be over.

I'm not trying to be a downer but here's the thing.

My CIO has no interest in Linux now. He used to. He used to when things were running smoothly. Now he sees the SCO lawsuit, and he sees Redhat tell people to use MS on the desktop. HE sees Mandrake in financial trouble, he sees Novell buy up SuSE, and He sees Linux starting to go from Free to Cost. Mind you this is not the total case, but if all he sees is a few things on the web and some pages of a magazine, then that's what he knows.

It does suck. It sucks indeed. I'm just simply saying that corporate people are about money. And my corporate people are getting the impression that Linux is losing money........and they are starting to charge for it. And Microsoft is coming to my CIO saying "We can drop the price....it's really not a big deal. We'll help you get off of Novell and go with 100% Microsoft". And they tell him they'll stick with him all the way.

Will Redhat come in and tell him they'll help him switch? Heck no.......they don't even care.

Microsoft just sends a rep in to see how we're doing and make sure we are going to STAY Microsoft.

Edited at 11:17pm EST: **Something I just thought of**
On another hand, Novell could change things and make the industry better. They own Ximian and if they would open source the Exchange connector so that people could use Ximian to connect to exchange servers for free with something other than Outlook, that would be a big help. They could also offer a kick butt desktop solution with Ximian and a free Exchange connector so they could compete with MS on the desktop. They could also offer seamless connectivity with Novell servers for shops with Novell (like we have about 7 Novell servers). Novell could really change the whole swing of things.

Anyway..........I could go on forever You get the point...

Peace,
Whitehat

I agree with you Whitehat on most parts. I think its dumb to think people are jumping ship on Linux cause they think they have to pay for it. I actually see Redhat's move as a smart one though. Yeah, they made a ton of loyal desktop users angry and confused but yet as a company, well, they weren't making any money off of it and if their Corporate Enterprise portion was actually supporting the cost of their desktop version, it was smart as a company to focus on that to save money.

Now I am still puzzled in why they just borrowed 500 million in cash when they have 300 million sitting in the bank. But from reading it appears they are only thinking about the future of the company, client future needs, etc. They might need to invest in other companies, buy other smaller companies for their technology, etc. I think most and or all large companies will do this to save time and resources trying to make the products their customers are demanding. Microsoft did it, probably just about on all their products it seems. Hell, they started their company basically selling DOS in which they bought.

And you should really tell your CIO that Novell buying Suse is actually a good thing. Novell has stepped up like IBM now and is, what I think, going to help the desktop market for Linux and server market as well. Suse has been doing the same thing Redhat has been doing and they have never offered free downloads except by FTP for their desktop, and so many use it, support them by buying it, etc.

But the fact does remain, Linux has so many users cause of its actual cost. It is free and there is always going to be free distro's out there. Its just these larger makers have to make money to survive or there wouldn't be Linux. Or at least it wouldn't be widely used as it is now and only growing actually.

I also believe the only reason Microsoft now is trying harder than ever is that it is a sign of acknowledgment from them that they do have competition now. But also Redhat still isn't as big as most think it is, probably why they're not knocking on everyone's door just yet, they just don't have that power.

Mandrake is now on a positive side now as well. They are on the brink of reversing their financial woes they've had in the past. And the SCO case, well, from the studies and survey's I've read, most companies and IT heads aren't even worried now. I think its because of the FUD SCO is spreading and how they keep changing their story after the community counteracts their claims against Linux.. err.. IBM.. or.. umm.. Novell.. which changes daily..

My two cents on a very constructive argument. Much better than those silly political threads in General I might say..

Cheers.

Trickykid,

I also agree with you on most, if not all, of your points.

You made some points that I overlooked. I agree that, as a business decision to make money, Redhat did the right thing. Without Redhat and SuSE Linux would be way smaller than it is now.

You have to know my CIO.. He's a real fool. He has an MBA and he is not technical at all. When I interviewed for my position, the other technical guys (system engineers, Cisco dudes etc) had to quiz me on stuff because the big man don't know jack. I however think in the IT field you HAVE to have technical managers in an IT dept. It is a must. Other depts don't matter so much, but you have to know your stuff in IT.

I also don't know why so many people are jumping ship here in this forum. I have said before that I think Fedora sucks. It does.....when compaired to Slackware . I however use Fedora on another box so I can keep up with Redhat stuff. It's good to be well versed. I however think it's not good to be a jack of all trades and master of none . I wish not to be that.

I agree with you 100% on this. I think Microsoft is a bit scared. They know they have more competition from Linux right now than from Unix, Novell, SUN, etc... This is a good thing!

I too like to have threads like this. I get tired of arguing with people to no end about stuff that I hate

Keep this thread going people. I likey

Peace to you all,
Whitehat

I understand (have for a long time) that the GPL is "free as in speech" but the fact is that this also implies "free as in beer". maybe Redhat doesn't want to give out their cd's free as in beer, but that doesn't mean that i cant give them out free. now by including proprietary programs in the distribution, i can no longer hold up the entire distro cd and say "this is free as in speech/beer" because not all parts of the distro are. if a program on the distro is proprietary and requires payment (or prevents private redistribution) say, one of redhat's programs, then i effectively lose my right to redistribute the distribution.

what i mean is that:
software that might be their own in which they can attach any type of license they want, per se. is what worries me.

in essence, i am talking about what i, the private citizen who doesn't care about support, can do with that cd.

generally, the price is too high. what in stamping 3-4 cd's, putting in a manual takes $799. support should be sold seperately.

tell me if im making sense here.

Doesn't actually worry me one bit.

Private citizen shouldn't have that cd unless they bought it rightfully. The price is set at Redhat's will. They can charge whatever they want for their support and package it however they want. Clearly companies like this, think its still cheaper and their alternative to Microsoft or using OS and systems that cost thousands more even.

If you don't like their license, don't use it then. There are literally hundreds of distro's out there which 99% you can most likely find a free download for. Use one of those.

I myself don't have $799 but yet I haven't used Redhat since 6.2 though. If I had a company that had the cash to spend as my staff needed some kind of support that will have turn around times of 1 hour and the such, well, I probably would buy Redhat or some other commercial distro for this reason.

But no worries from me, I think its smart in what they are doing. They're doing what any company is doing, trying to make money to make their products better.

Regards.

I don't have any problem with RedHat charging. Heck, I paid for my copy of 5.1 a few years back. I think it's kind of stupid to focus on the high margin, low volume end of the market exclusively though. It makes the company much more susceptible to economic downturns, for one thing. The low margin (relatively speaking,) high volume deskop segment of the market could keep them afloat during hard times. Much easier to sell a $50 product than a $800 product... you just have to sell a lot more of them. Anyway, seems to me, to compete effectively against M$ you need to support the entire market, at both ends of the price spectrum and everywhere in between. It's the complete end-to-end solution that Microsoft offers that makes them so hard to beat IMHO.