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Old 09-06-2002, 12:37 PM   #1
tundra
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the linux community?


richard morrell's rather strong but more likely accurate take on the all too common LUGS scene...

http://smoothwall.org/community/home...community.html
 
Old 09-06-2002, 04:28 PM   #2
tincat2
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can't speak for the uk scene, but i have some empathy for morrell's reactions based on what i have encountered here in the us. first, i know i want answers to my own problems so i can get on with my thing, but i do appreciate, as much in my ignorance as i am able, the huge amount of talent and the just plain pile of work that all of the people(from torvalds on down and over) involved in linux development(open source in general) have literally donated
to the community at large over a period of years. more than that, however, i stand in respect of the commitment of these individuals to the philosophy of the free and open dissemination of knowledge for the continuing advancement of knowledge rather than a goal of personal enrichment beyond any possibility of satiation. if one looks at the situation in the us , one sees a never ending quest to lock up and require fees for information of any sort. this is true with the law, medicine, technology, education, etc. if you need to understand what i am gettig at here, then i will ask as an example; why should any competent person need a lawyer to do any legal thing in this country? o my god, you say, this fool thinks he can joust with the best legal minds of the nation. no, you poor soul, i say, you have been sold a bill of goods-any laws we have should be framed such that no hired(and well paid) experts are needed to allow a citizen(or non citizen for that matter, if we're really into justice) to have a fair and just hearing before a court. there's more to this, but i know i digress, i simply want to relate a context for the admiration i do have for persons who offer the fruits of their labor for the benefit of the fraternity of workers in the field.
as to the lugs observations, i am again somewhat limited in my experience, as i have been to only one lug here in the us. i did see the "types" mentioned by morrell. in my lug, the "care in the community" gang was such a severe minority that nothing was going there. the armpit guys were a more pronounced presence, if not by numbers, then certainly by olfactory evidence. hard to think what to say about them; obviously, they had left social concerns pretty much off their agendas and i don't know that one can blame it on upbringing or an all-consuming fascination with linux.
i have run into such characters many places many times-i will say,however, that some of them were friendly and helpful, which is more than i can say for the next sort i ran across. and that would be the all knowing, ever present, clannish, territorial gurus who didn't seem to offer any real direction for the group, but who resisted and belittled any other attempts at setting a course for the evening. now, let me say that i realize fully that these individuals represent a mere subset of the set of gurus out there, but i think that morrell may have a similar impression to my own in mind when he states that he favors education and new user help in his offer to back a new paradigm for the lugs.
in closing, i would once again offer my thanks to all those who by their work and dedication have brought this tool to my hands, both for what i can do with it and for what it will enable me to do as i increase in my knowledge.

Last edited by tincat2; 09-06-2002 at 04:35 PM.
 
Old 09-06-2002, 05:57 PM   #3
Bert
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Richard Morell appears to have quite a few err ... issues with most things linux. Take what he says with a pinch of salt - in the article here he is even criticising his public!! If he can't take that then well maybe he should write proprietary systems or rethink releasing on GPL (which he also has issues with).

Morell is writing as judge and jury - his comments are not overlooked by an editor or subject to peer review (most of whom it appears he sacked anyway). Have a look at the other articles on that site and you'll quickly get a feel for what I mean.

If software doesn't work properly then it doesn't matter if it's free or not. If I criticise Emacs, Bill Joy won't hunt me down. He won't give a toss. Same goes for Stallman and sendmail - they just don't care because they wrote the software to solve not just a problem but their problem. I have no doubt that Smoothwall is a great product and Morell is a talented individual but does that qualify him to stand on a soapbox ?

Just a thought.

Bert
 
Old 09-06-2002, 06:57 PM   #4
Half_Elf
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Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
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I suppose he's right... We (users) can't attack people because their progs are bad if they give it to us as free software. If you BUY something and then the something doesn't works, you have cry loudly if it doesn't works. But if the "something" is free... what's the problem? You didn't lost anything!

However I'm not really sure about what Morell refer when he saids "he was attack" maybe I'm totally wrong and it refer to something else.
But still... when you start working with (and for) the people, you should be prepare to be attack... There are always 10% of you will encouter in a certain situation that are stupid assh*le
 
  


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