Teach(.)"Moved non-related post to a new thread"<Moderator Response below>.
 

Teach programming
 

Hmmmmm ...... So you are advocating teaching teaching to 7-12? or do you mean teach programming to all high school students? Just clarifying. If it is teaching programming, what about those who have no desire to learn programming even though they are quite academic, do you want to force them to do a subject they have no desire to do? Wouldn't they be better off doing subjects they would use to help society?

Programming as an elective is good, although we force useless stuff to kill their will already why not logic? And, yes teaching teaching to 6-18 year olds would help society(’s-sad but true most think they born on continents only).

nationsonline.org/oneworld/continents_map.htm

I only asked because it is a struggle to understand what you are posting about most of the time and I thought some clarification of your post may help me understand you a bit better. Now you have replied it seems to me that you have never been in control of a classroom of mixed ability kids. Teaching kids how to learn is what school education should be about. Anyway I fail to see what this has to do with the FSF so I wont respond to you again on this off-topic matter.

It's hard to fully understand anyone\or-thing because we cant see it from infinite angels+...
I have said hu to many of your posts in the past...

And, FS is about Freedom and Education.

:) yes very cryptic, but they do tell you to read between the lines ;)
They should be "streamed" on ability, or in better terms "skill set"

Difficult to do as I believe most Adults in the Education system are blinkered by their own "skill sets"
Disagree,
I think *all* kids have an inherent ability to learn, you can't teach 'it' to them.
Instead it is the job of the education system to employ various teaching models, each model suited to particular 'sets' of kids. Trouble is, this is likely expensive, albeit in the shortterm, and I don't believe all teachers are "up to the job" being 'fixed' in their ways and failing to understand students/people with differing communication styles.

tldr;
"Teachers" need to learn how to teach, kids already know how to learn.

First things first can a mod seperate these off-topics please to a new thread.

between the lines of what?

In an ideal world yes but this world is far from ideal. When you have a class of 25 kids spread across 4 grades it is impossible to stream on ability let alone skill set. Why? they are all in the one class. The best you can do is give them work just above their comfort zone.

Some are, some aren't. Saying most is a blanket statement that may not be factually correct.

You disagree but only "think" *all* kids have an inherent ability to learn.

Let me put it another way for you. All kids have an inherent ability to learn but teachers bring that ability out. Now that ability may be brought out by parents, family, or professional educators but they are still teaching the kids how to learn.

I agree with the first part but not with the second. If the second were true the first would not be needed because they would already know how to do it. Why? because if the second were true you could give a kid a book and without them having any prior knowledge or further help they would be able to learn how to read by themselves. Unfortunately it just doesn't happen that way. Likewise if the second were true everyone would just know what to do within minutes and without any help from anyone else. People don't learn if they are in a social vacuum, kids (and adults) need others to share experiences with, teachers share the experience of learning (and good teachers target the developing learning styles of individual kids). Teach kids methods (of learning) and they get the facts for themselves, teach them facts without having already taught methods (of learning) and they may know 2 + 2 = 4 because it has been drummed into them and they believe it but they may not be able to display how they know the fact.

*They* and we also suppress it. Why do you think (the "fact" is) 2 is the best age to\for learning?

Moderator Response
 

Moved non-related post to a new thread <Teach programming>.

Did you READ?

note their sig
Nope, the statement is true, and will be until I change my mind.
I do, they may not learn what you want them to learn, but they are still learning.
I will however admit that I have left out very specific groups who have blatently obvious learning difficulties.
or not, depending on how you look at it
Kid already knows how to learn, they need to be engaged in learning.

Hate quoting wikipedia, but here is a definition of learning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning
You and I seem to have a different understanding ob what the ability to learn is.
You can't teach someone how to learn,
You can show then how to exploit resources

They don't learn the skills required for a social existence, but they may learn to survive.

They do not teach the ability to learn.
Good teachers engage, in an adaptive manor

Show they how to exploit resources, and yes they can learn for themselves.
Might not be what you want them to learn.. but hey.
You can't teach facts. you present them and memory/recall is not learning.
2 + 2 is irreverent here.


anyway, going off topic over semantics.

back on topic

It is my belief that all students should be introduced to as many 'fields' as possible at as early an age as possible, programming being one of them.
Obviously there are limits to the range and level, and it should be fun ( all about engaging them )

http://www.raspberrypi.org/ for the win.

looks off topic ( Eduction ) , but I only watched a few min.

Got to say Bill's opening "..the original vision of Microsoft, that we had a dream what software could do with infinite computing and infinite storage.."
Sure explains a lot of the 'bloat' and 'out of memory' stuff ;)

Jamison2000e, I am known for going off topic when the topic is evolving and I freely admit it but posting cryptic sentences and using them to link to things that are nothing to do with the topic is spamming a topic. I won't put you on my ignore list (simply because you may one day post something useful and I'd not like to miss that special day) but I doubt I'll respond to you much more.

Firerat, we are going to keep disagreeing so I'll stop here. I have a programming assessment due tomorrow plus an interview to write and conduct for Project Management.

Well, I learned in school that to get good grades you have to regurgitate memorized "facts" that the teacher thinks are important. Even Albert Einstein had to redefine gravity to be a property of warped space rather than saying "Newton was wrong and there's no such force." Sad but true... just wait until someone tells them that time and solid matter are illusions. :D

At first I thought it was Off Topic, but now I've had a chance to watch it I see how it is relevant. Education and teaching is touched upon several times.
However, it was geared towards higher education.

I love how Bill kinda freaks out whenever others bring up Free Software :)Opinions meaning anything are often...

Sorry for leaving that open but it's up to you? Lately I have been on an anything means everything\nothing kick and I do apologize for my frustrations with history.?.?.(I gnunow)?But, you\we do,,, opinions\* are argumentative. And thanks to them(\opinions)\free-will we have Free-Software+++

What's up to me? I'm not your mother or father you can finish your own sentences without my help.

Is this an admition that you are being deliberately confusing/spamming/trolling?

See that sentence just doesn't make any sense as it is written.

I'm not going to read between your lines so if you want to continue this you're gonna have to be clear and to the point. This crypticity in your posts, and your signature, and your cross posting, plus links everywhere and everywhere, says to me you are not serious. Unfortunately I don't have the time nor the energy to discuss serious things with people who feign seriousness yet are not.

Its not that bad
the gist of it...

We all have opinions, differing opinion which can lead to argumentative behaviour. But this is not necessarily a bad thing, after all "Free Software" is a result of RMS's differing opinion.



All the links ( ok the ones I have read or skimmed ) usually on-topic and are offered without bias, you read/watch , you decide.

No point in paraphrasing something when you can just link to it


Anyway, lets not get all excited and flame away
No-one is here to fight, and arguments can be good


Devil's advocate
throw stones
or in ref to The Adulterous Woman, John 8?
Which makes little sense
It is safer to be a sinner?

I'm going with
nope, that make no sense either

I give up.

This thread isn't about RMS.

He is cross posting between two threads, if a mod thought his post was on topic it would have been left in the other thread.

A few of them link to other topics and the topics are not the same.

At least give an introduction.

Not flaming but most certainly not chasing my tail between threads just because someone is linking posts between two or more topics to make points that simply are not on topic. Also not going to discuss something with someone who says "Nope, the statement is true, and will be until I change my mind." I'm not here to change anyone's mind so the stonewall placed in the middle of the conversation only served to stop my participation in it.

My reference to Devil's advocate in my signature, which has caused many in LQ to get quite upset, is merely to encourage people to think outside their comfort zone. People who say their version of reality is the only version and that they wont change their mind, or something similar to what you said and which I quoted above, aren't willing to think outside their comfort zone so being devils advocate does nothing in that instance. It is not intended to perpetuate any debate or argument but rather to get people to ponder, in silence if need be, their view before they reply. It is hoped people participating in a discussion would have an open mind and not just say "it is true until I change my mind".

Anyway I'm done.

You said I should not make statements that were false, but the statement was true as I said it was my belief
That belief may be wrong, but the statement was true, and would remain true until such a time as I changed my mind.

then you really don't understand what "devils advocate" is about.
I see a pattern emerge
or, you have such a problem with other people because you advertise that you are up for serious debate. But because you have a complete lack of understanding of the concept of "devil's advocate" you just end up spitting your dummy out.
Is this another pattern I see?

Seriously, there is no point, as soon as anyone challenges your opinion or understanding you just go on a little rant.

Your rants are not counter arguments, they are just pathetic.

I am done

Actually I said nothing like it.

I'm the bit in bold, I'm not here to argue for the sake of argument I'm here to get people to consider the validity of their position. You said up front what you said is true and will remain so until you change your mind. You will not test the validity of your position so I see no reason to continue a discussion about education with you based on your belief that you're statement is true and by all appearances nothing will make you change your mind. If the fact I will not engage you further on the issue of education upsets you so much then please accept my sincere apology.

Do you? care to share?

By definition, given above, a devils advocate does not have to engage in an argument for the sake of it. I understand you expect me argue with you over education, I have said I will not so you are now upset.

You are very repetitive.

You're ranting, I gave up discussing education with you based on my feeling it would not serve any useful purpose. No dummy spit because I quite plainly explained back in post 16 where I said
You have turned this into an argument, meanwhile accusing me of saying something I didn't. If my simple statement in post 16 upset you that much let me, again, offer my deepest apology. If not wanting to engage someone who will not consider other points of view is pathetic then so be it I'm guilty as charged.

In order again (I forgot the last thread we did this but:) you missed my point, no(although life, death and in between are a bit confusing), you missed my point; I'd view telling you to get some Viagra as "spamming" and trolling etc.......don't want to spell every little thing out for you either that was a statement at a quote of which we are a-r-g-u-m-e-n-t-a-t-i-v-e and o-p-i-n-i-o-n-a-t-e-d and luckily using Free Software(I know you think this is off topic): read between you already know, the box doesn't always show up right (I know) but that's think outside of it; the rest is enough said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firerat (Post 5000804) ...No point in paraphrasing something when you can just link to it...

Thanks. :)

No point missed, just wondering why you are posting about FSF, RMS, FOSS in a thread about education. Rather simple isn't it? The thread the first part of this thread come from was about FSF and RMS, this thread isn't. You and I have been in enough threads where we have been told to stay on topic, this thread was created to keep the other one on topic and I am trying to stay on topic in this thread.

Again, this is not on topic, this has nothing to do with education instead you keep going back to the other thread. The first post here was off topic in the other thread, a moderator moved it and the posts after it. If you have a problem with that debate the validity of your posts with regards to the topic with the moderator who moved it.

k3lt01 how ever you are
read back through the thread
realise that the pattern is your lack of understanding
also please realise that you have on several occasions specified that you would not reply
Yet you did, and continue to

with great embarrassment to myself I will respond ( regardless of "I am done" )

YOU are an idiot.
Shut up

if you don't believe me then read back your posts.
Pay special attention to posts relating to me playing "devil's advocate" in reference to your friend the illiterate mechanic.
YOU failed, well that’s about it..
even I believe me after that.
( this was before I discovered you don't know what "devil's advocate" is about )

I myself have failed because I have decided to point out your failings
You continually fail to understand ( a pattern )
You continually state you will not respond, but you do..
is this something else you fail to understand?
I get you are not the sharpest tool in the box, but you start being combative, expect a pop to your nose ( derivative of your sig , do you like ? )


Read back what you claim to be repetitive, it wasn't, FACT
one was ref to you not having understanding [ proven by yourself ]
the other was
"no more stupid insights from me", yet you still come back with your drivel
( yeah, I did also, but muppets need to be educated )


I'm not doing this for me
I'm doing it for you
You need to understand how stupid you can be, saying you will not respond, then responding is idiotic ( even I feel stupid for doing it )

And my defence here is, ffs someone needs to point out how stupid k3lt01 is coming across.
OK, not much of a defence
my defence appears to be
I'm guilty of highlighting their idiocy

but hey, said idiot says he plays "devil's advocate" yet he doesn’t understand it and quite frankly was obliterated by one.]

They just share unqualified opinions

Nothing wrong with that, just don't cry when wrong

my point is made
k3lt01, turn your head and *

<huge snip>
You are upset aren't you! I'll take abuse from people who have a right to be abusive (i.e. no one on this planet). You make things up, saying I told you not to say something (that was either a complete delusion or an out right lie, you decide what it was for yourself).

Lack of understanding? lets see, did you read the definition of devils advocate? no I didn't think so because you believe a devils advocate must argue just for the sake of it when that is not reality.

The rest of your rant (and you accuse me of ranting and being pathetic) isn't worth the time you spent typing it.

Have a fun day.

clever..
use that to incite someone
Sorry, nothing more to say to you.

Firerat you Muppet

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...3/#post4996224
you forgot to point people to you playing "devil's advocate", to which you received no response and felt conflicted over.

k3lt01

You understand far less than you think you understand.

REMOVE YOUR LIE FROM SIG
or be the fool for ever

Moderator Response
 

To everyone participating in this argument/discussion. Please re-read the following;No personal attacks. If you wish to continue your discussion in current tone then carry it via PM. Not here at LQ.

If this discussion continues in this manner here then I will move your post(s) to the bit bucket. So please re-read the LQ Rules before you even consider posting back too this thread.

This thread was created because members were off topic in the original thread. I felt that members could carry on a intelligent, constructive discussion without baiting or flaming each other.

Please weight(21) your reply keeping LQ Rules in mind and re-think/re-read first before submitting the reply.

"What is everyone's opinion about the Free Software Foundation?"
 

To k3lt01, onebuck and "the-www":
"It's good to be King\Excuse me if I, have some place in my mind, where I go from time to time"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverend (Post 4993888) Asking this question as someone new to Linux. I'm very much like the idea of freedom... but I also hear a lot of criticism also. I don't understand it all or really know who's on the right side of things. Thought I'd ask general Linux users about this topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 5001223) No point missed... The thread the first part of this thread come from was about FSF and RMS,...

The Free Software Foundation is not RMS (he is a teacher and was a programmer) could see how you'd get that confused as the topic should definitely bring him++++ about.
Open Source is not necessarily Free, should know that if you read\listened\watched-links++

This is going to confuse you k3lt01 but you could cry to the Mods and have them split every topic (from (note how —comment is tied in, plus READ IT ALL AND ALL OF IT'S LINKS BEFORE COMING BACK!)) in to signal words, in new threads; could call it a sort of dictionary with no definitions... (I know you dislike Wikipedia and since you cant |read|(between the lines) that's Don't come back. Or, at least for the years it would take...) L-a-u-g-h O-u-t L-o-u-d

Free software is about educating the world and keeping individual freedom. Just like they\* praise actors instead of all the "little people"(on up) that make it happen, RMS did not do it all and I find it sad that I can't put this in Latin; impeach power, end borders!

You jumped on a band wagon(.)

Before you go and make any further false accusations I'll let you know I reported my own post not yours or anyone else's. Onebuck or the mod who looks after reports can verify that if they so choose it is neither here nor there to me. After I reported my own post, in order to stop the other thread going of topic because I knew it would, a moderator used his own discretion and separated more than my posts. I am not crying over this fact however it seems it has caused you, and at least one other person, great distress and caused two members to unite. I am happy for the both of you :rolleyes:

I can read, I have read your blog, your Google+ page and a few other things you have left around the internet. The writing style you are using here is on your blog and Google+ but not on every forum you have frequented. I am not the first, and I seriously doubt I will be the last in LQ, to comment on your writing style in LQ.

Your writing style in your posts, your accusations (along with those of others), not to mention telling a mod he jumped on a bandwagon, is more than I have seen others get away with. You're now the first person on my ignore list, congratulations.

Have a most excellent day :hattip:

Moderator Response
 

No band wagon, just doing my job as a moderator. Best if you would take the advice and cease the violation(s) of LQ Rules. When you signed up to participate here at LQ you agreed to abide by the LQ Rules ;Please remember that LQ is a moderated forum and that you agreed to abide(7).

thank you all

Moderator Response
 

This thread is now closed since jamison20000e postings are not relevant to the conversation thus not constructive or informative. jamison20000e does not seem to wish to follow the rules.

jamison20000e be aware that you are treading on thin ice by not following or adhering to the LQ Rules