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evo2 07-30-2022 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 6370714)
not knowing the overall impact to my laptop by just trying things like this. for example, what will happen if i try to run one user with Wayland?

Your computer will catch fire and burn your house down.

But seriously what do you mean by "run one user with Wayland?". The user will run a wayland compositor: Wayland is not running the user.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 6370714)
i have everything running under LightDM, now, and that can't be changed until i figure out exactly how i am going to organize things so i have a key press with Alt to go to each different user (typically 18 to 21 of them are running) and a keypad keypress to go to a different workspace within each user (most have 10 workspaces, a couple have 16 which i will be expanding to 20.

also i currently run Xfce. i'll need to have that or an equivalent controlling my working environment.

i need to continue using my computer ever day and i am limited to one laptop right now. so i have to get it all setup for me nearly instantly (a couple hours at most) or have Wayland concurrently run with what have now and not break anything.

As I said, install a wayland compositor, switch to an unused vt and just run it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 6370714)
during the transition to Wayland, i need to be able to do everything i do now, every day, just about every hour.

Installing a wayland compositor should have no impact on how you are currently using your
system. Do you go through this whole extended Q and A process when you install other software?

aus9 07-31-2022 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 6370568)
i'm thinking SNIP seen as a subwindow within the window associated with that networked console connectionSNIP.

I believe not possible. On of the main screeshot apps that works on sway for example has no mention of capture other workspaces
https://github.com/emersion/grim

and from wikipedia, user inputs so could be wrong
Quote:

Inter-process communication
The X server provides a basic communication method between X clients, later extended by ICCCM conventions. This X client-to-client communication is used by window managers and also to implement X sessions, selections and drag-and-drop, and other features. The Wayland core protocol does not support communication between Wayland clients at all as the corresponding functionality (if needed) is regarded by the Wayland community as something which should be implemented by the desktop environments (like KDE or GNOME), or by a third party (for example, by using native IPC of the underlying operating system).
ref
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waylan..._Wayland_and_X

Skaperen 07-31-2022 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evo2 (Post 6370738)
Your computer will catch fire and burn your house down.

it's designed to be fireproof. Seriously, it is. a continuous blowtorch could turn a lot to ash (not the bricks or concrete), but nothing can sustain combustion.

a Li-ion battery fire could possibly kill someone. smoke might be an issue in some parts. and the fire alarms hurt my ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evo2 (Post 6370738)
But seriously what do you mean by "run one user with Wayland?". The user will run a wayland compositor: Wayland is not running the user.

one of many users, i am running via LightDM. all users are running their own instance of X.

i've done this kind of thing before without LightDM. i just switched VT. i had 63 VTs. VTs 10, 11, and 12 ran X. suppose in this case (no LightDM) i try to run Wayland on VTs 7, 8, and 9. everything else runs text mode in this case.


Quote:

Originally Posted by evo2 (Post 6370738)
As I said, install a wayland compositor, switch to an unused vt and just run it.

since i am using LightDM, right now, i won't, since it is a known incompatibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evo2 (Post 6370738)
Installing a wayland compositor should have no impact on how you are currently using your
system. Do you go through this whole extended Q and A process when you install other software?

normally, no. if there is reason to believe i also need to make various changes to how other things are done, and writings on the internet don't cover this (they usually don't cover the extremes i tend to push things), then i ask. but you see to be say that in most cases, it can be that simple.

so my thinking about a plan is this:

1. set up a non-LightDM system somewhere, such as my emergency system i can boot /dev/sdb up to. and install and try it. package name suggestions may be helpful? "weston"?

2. if #1 works, boot up my backup system from /dev/sdc (which does run LightDM) and switch to a text VT that, hopefully, LightDM will ignore, such as tty4. then run (something) and see if it can run beside LightDM.

3. try running 4 or 5 instances of Wayland. see what i can rig up to switch around with.

edit #1:

it would probably be helpful to find out if i can set up some kind of keyboard shortcuts under Wayland. Xfce (which i use, now) is not yet Wayland ready so i probably won't switch over, yet, unless i find some Wayland ready alternative.

evo2 07-31-2022 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 6371017)
since i am using LightDM, right now, i won't, since it is a known incompatibility.

But you should be able to run a wayland compositor independently of lightdm. They would be completely separate from each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 6371017)
normally, no. if there is reason to believe i also need to make various changes to how other things are done, and writings on the internet don't cover this (they usually don't cover the extremes i tend to push things), then i ask. but you see to be say that in most cases, it can be that simple.

It seems to me that this is one of those cases where you don't need to make such changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 6371017)
so my thinking about a plan is this:

1. set up a non-LightDM system somewhere, such as my emergency system i can boot /dev/sdb up to. and install and try it. package name suggestions may be helpful? "weston"?

There are many options, I already suggested sway. Others include gnome, enlightenment, kde, river. I wouldn't recommend weston, since I think that was supposed to be more of an example of a compositor rather than something to actually use. See https://github.com/natpen/awesome-wayland#compositors for a fuller list of compositors.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 6371017)
2. if #1 works, boot up my backup system from /dev/sdc (which does run LightDM) and switch to a text VT that, hopefully, LightDM will ignore, such as tty4. then run (something) and see if it can run beside LightDM.

This should work.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 6371017)
3. try running 4 or 5 instances of Wayland. see what i can rig up to switch around with.

I'm kind of curious to know why you want to run so many different graphical sessions at the same time on a single machine. When I've worked on graphical systems with multiple users, the users log out when they physically leave the system allowing another user to then sit down at the system and then log in. Alternatively the user locks their session when they leave and then a different user can log in using GDMs (gnomes?) fast user switcher.

Note however that wayland does have the concept of "seats" although I'm not sure which compositors actually implement multiple seats.

Evo2.

mrmazda 07-31-2022 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaperen (Post 6369686)
i'm still using X but interested in how Wayland behaves in certain cases to see how soon i should try jumping to it.

There is no "jumping" required. It's simply an alternate session type to select on the DM's login screen if that DM is SDDM or LightDM or probably GDM and others, unless on Xubuntu it's a "feature" to omit any Wayland session option. If you're configured to auto-login, then you'll need to log out without rebooting to find it.

In most recent distros, basic wayland support is there whether you want it or not:
Code:

# inxi -S
System:
  Host: gx780 Kernel: 5.15.0-27-generic arch: x86_64 bits: 64
    Console: pty pts/0 Distro: Ubuntu 22.04 LTS (Jammy Jellyfish)
# dpkg -l | grep -i  yland
ii  libwayland-client0:amd64              1.20.0-1                                amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - client library
ii  libwayland-cursor0:amd64              1.20.0-1                                amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - cursor library
ii  libwayland-egl1:amd64                1.20.0-1                                amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - EGL library
ii  libwayland-server0:amd64              1.20.0-1                                amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - server library

If you haven't done anything to prevent installation of more than listed above, it's probably ready to run on your system.

Skaperen 08-01-2022 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmazda (Post 6371047)
There is no "jumping" required. It's simply an alternate session type to select on the DM's login screen if that DM is SDDM or LightDM or probably GDM and others, unless on Xubuntu it's a "feature" to omit any Wayland session option. If you're configured to auto-login, then you'll need to log out without rebooting to find it.

i have user "admin" configured to autologin. when it autologs in, i manually run my setup script. it prompts me for a couple big passwords then sets up my work environment which includes logging in 17 more users and 15 background shell sessions using screen. these users are members of group "nopasswdlogin" which lets them switch quickly with dm-tool switch-to-user (this does not apply to ssh logins). yes, i know i depend on physical security.

i have read that Wayland an LightDM are incompatible. hopefully they meant that LightDM needs a real X Windows to do its password prompt sessions. hopefully that is all it refers to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmazda (Post 6371047)
In most recent distros, basic wayland support is there whether you want it or not:
Code:

# inxi -S
System:
  Host: gx780 Kernel: 5.15.0-27-generic arch: x86_64 bits: 64
    Console: pty pts/0 Distro: Ubuntu 22.04 LTS (Jammy Jellyfish)
# dpkg -l | grep -i  yland
ii  libwayland-client0:amd64              1.20.0-1                                amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - client library
ii  libwayland-cursor0:amd64              1.20.0-1                                amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - cursor library
ii  libwayland-egl1:amd64                1.20.0-1                                amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - EGL library
ii  libwayland-server0:amd64              1.20.0-1                                amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - server library

If you haven't done anything to prevent installation of more than listed above, it's probably ready to run on your system.

Code:

lt1a/forums/1 /home/forums 17> inxi -S
System:    Host: lt1a Kernel: 5.15.0-41-generic x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Xfce 4.14.2 Distro: Ubuntu 20.04.4 LTS (Focal Fossa)
lt1a/forums/1 /home/forums 18> dpkg -l | grep -i  yland
ii  libva-wayland2:amd64                  2.7.0-2                              amd64        Video Acceleration (VA) API for Linux -- Wayland runtime
ii  libwayland-client0:amd64              1.18.0-1                              amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - client library
ii  libwayland-cursor0:amd64              1.18.0-1                              amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - cursor library
ii  libwayland-egl1:amd64                1.18.0-1                              amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - EGL library
ii  libwayland-server0:amd64              1.18.0-1                              amd64        wayland compositor infrastructure - server library
lt1a/forums/1 /home/forums 19>

so all i should need to do is configure LightDM to launch the chosen compositor for the chosen user while it is fully logged out and switch to it and see what happens while i try to figure out how to get back if i can't get a virtual terminal to come up. maybe i'll do this when i will be rebooting, which i always do before and after every software upgrade. which compositor do you suggest, that is already in Ubuntu 20.04 (and hopefully in Xubuntu 20.04). maybe i should put 22.04 on my /dev/sdb to have something to try out at that level to figure the issues i had with it.

frankbell 08-01-2022 08:55 PM

Thanks to evo2's earlier post in this thread, I've been using Wayland on Slackware off and on the past few days and, so far, it's worked quite nicely.


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