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Old 06-11-2017, 10:05 AM   #1
jefm
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So I have to get a windows machine, what am I in for?


Not especially proud of this but sometimes you've got to do what needs doing.
I'm involved with work having to do with Autodesk Inventor, there's no easy way around it, I need to run Inventor. I know there's FOSS CAD's, I need to be able to understand and support Inventor. Not a big fan of windows or Autodesk's subscription model, but cest la vie.

My plan is this:
Get a Dell XPS, format the drive and reinstall windows 10, if allowed
Install Inventor, Inkscape, Gimp, LibreOffice and friends
Later, work toward reloading the book with Linux and run windows 10 in a VM

For now I feel like I need a "windows for Linux users" book. It's been years since I've owned a windows machine. What am I in for? From memory:

Antivirus - Brand?
Antimalware - Brand?
Updates

Any other advice? Thanks for any help.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 10:25 AM   #2
hydrurga
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Personally, I would just run Inventor in a Windows VM (I'm used to VirtualBox) running on Linux, or at least test it out in that environment to see that it does everything you want it to in a virtual environment.

That way, you can carry on using all your usual Linux productivity software on your machine at the same time that Inventor is running in your VM. Make sure you have an adequate amount of RAM to cover the needs of both your Linux system and the Windows VM running in parallel.
 
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:38 AM   #3
hazel
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Here's a warning before you start. Modern versions of Windows don't store files where you expect. They have something called "libraries" which aren't libraries at all but virtual folders, quite independent of the actual directory structure. These virtual folders are all you see in your file manager; you have no easy way of finding out where things actually are.

I assume the whole thing must be held together by some network of symbolic links. I can't see any other way it could be done. And if the links get corrupted, there's almost no way of getting at the data. All you get when you try are weird error messages. This actually happened to a friend of mine.
 
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Old 06-11-2017, 11:33 AM   #4
jefm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrurga View Post
Personally, I would just run Inventor in a Windows VM (I'm used to VirtualBox) running on Linux, or at least test it out in that environment to see that it does everything you want it to in a virtual environment.
I'm hoping to do that someday, I ordered extra RAM with that in mind. I figure with w10 on it, I can start working quickly, and try vbox when time allows. To me the challenge is just installing and administrating windows, I find both easier on Linux, if I can get w10 to run native then I can fool around virtualising it.

Thanks Hazel, I do recall something haunting about windows file location, I will try to be careful.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 11:34 AM   #5
wpeckham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Here's a warning before you start. Modern versions of Windows don't store files where you expect. They have something called "libraries" which aren't libraries at all but virtual folders, quite independent of the actual directory structure. These virtual folders are all you see in your file manager; you have no easy way of finding out where things actually are.

I assume the whole thing must be held together by some network of symbolic links. I can't see any other way it could be done. And if the links get corrupted, there's almost no way of getting at the data. All you get when you try are weird error messages. This actually happened to a friend of mine.
I Second the first part, late Windows has gone crazy with restricting writes to the root of C: and all system folders by non-windows certified processes. I create a c:\bin and c:\usr\local structure to emulate the *nix paths I am used to for installing MY stuff into. (Gee, thanks for forcing that Microsoft.) The directory structure has gone a bit odd, and these virtual libraries can be a pain BUT are insanely useful part of the time.

Make sure that you load "Everything" file finder, it will FIND those files no matter where they are in the structures, even if your libraries go south on you. It takes a while to index the first time, after that it tracks every file and finds are insanely fast.

Also I recommend "FileHippo" to keep your open source apps current, secure, and patched properly.

I suggest a copy of "Malwarebytes" if you can afford it. It is GREAT as an on-demand scanner, but you will want something different for background detection and protection.
The PDF from this site MAY help https://www.av-comparatives.org/summary-reports/
These pages may server you better http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2388652,00.asp
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/best-ant...ew-2588-5.html

I hope that this helps.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 11:59 AM   #6
onebuck
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Member response

Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefm View Post
Not especially proud of this but sometimes you've got to do what needs doing.
I'm involved with work having to do with Autodesk Inventor, there's no easy way around it, I need to run Inventor. I know there's FOSS CAD's, I need to be able to understand and support Inventor. Not a big fan of windows or Autodesk's subscription model, but cest la vie.
Employee commitments are necessary. I can remember my days at the University and having to adhere to Autodesk's license that really was tight and restrictive at the time. We had a college license to utilize in our Labs. It's been years since my University LAB work and I am not familiar with current Autodesk's protection scheme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jefm View Post
My plan is this:
Get a Dell XPS, format the drive and reinstall windows 10, if allowed
Install Inventor, Inkscape, Gimp, LibreOffice and friends
Later, work toward reloading the book with Linux and run windows 10 in a VM
Why re-install? Most Dell machines will come with a Win/10 version depending on chosen equipment. If you go with the Gnu/Linux host then you will need a Windows 10 ISO for client install.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jefm View Post
For now I feel like I need a "windows for Linux users" book. It's been years since I've owned a windows machine. What am I in for? From memory:

Antivirus - Brand?
Antimalware - Brand?
Updates

Any other advice? Thanks for any help.
I need to keep Microsoft Windows(dual boot) on certain equipment to serve clients when they contact me for support. All my primary machines are Slackware Gnu/Linux based. I occasionally will use Vbox for testing. You could use a Gnu/Linux with Vbox to serve as host to a MS Windows client with a properly configured system. Anti-virus is your choice but there are a few good free ones available. Malware can be handled by the client. As for the host configuration; be sure to have enough memory & storage along with good processor choice for virtual machine hosting.

Most of my machines utilize 'SSD' for speed and reliability. You choose the filesystem but I do prefer EXT4 for my Gnu/Linux systems. Configuring a solid SSD for Gnu/Linux is easy and will provide a good means to serve as host.

Do a search here at LQ as this has been asked many times.

Hope this helps.
Have fun & enjoy!

Last edited by onebuck; 06-11-2017 at 12:44 PM. Reason: typo
 
Old 06-11-2017, 12:16 PM   #7
jefm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Hi,
It's been years since my University LAB work and I am not familiar with current Autodesk's protection scheme.
Autodesk is currently subscription based. It's why I quit Adobe so I'm not thrilled to see it again. It's also why PCB layout folks are abandoning EAGLE, because Autodesk acquired them and went rental with it. I had a big reply here and deleted it, this isn't the place. Suffice to say I don't like software rental.

Quote:
Why re-install? Most Dell machines will come with a Win/10 version depending on chosen equipment.
Personal preference, my tradition with a new windows machine is to format the drive and start clean w/o whatever bloatware installed that the manufacture put on for me. MS office, Symmantec, dvd viewer, whatever else phoning home behind my back. Maybe I'll just start working this time but it will be nuked sooner or later just for the sake of knowing how to install windows.

Thanks for extensive notes on the v-stuff. Saved. I over-ordered on memory, proc and disk with hopes of going virtual someday.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 12:37 PM   #8
Myk267
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You could do a lot worse than installing Windows's own Windows Defender, which used to be Microsoft Security Essentials, and keeping the system up to date.
 
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Old 06-11-2017, 01:04 PM   #9
hydrurga
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Just to answer a comment of yours and reiterate what others have said.

The potential problem with reinstalling Windows from scratch is the lack of drivers for your specific hardware. Ensure that you have downloaded these from the Dell website and placed them on a USB stick before you install. You will also find that installing Windows 10 from scratch and updating it can take *ages* - each new release is almost like a new operating system, so try to find an up-to-date version for your initial install.

As regards security, unless you're going to be surfing the dark recesses of the web, Windows Defender (as Myk267 suggests) should be sufficient. No need to install it however, it is built-in. Back this up by installing Malwarebytes (as wpeckham suggests) and SuperAntiSpyware, and periodically update and run these.

If you *are* going to be surfing the dark recesses of the web, or are incautious with your surfing, download Sandboxie and surf with a sandboxed browser.

Another useful application is CryptoPrevent. Keep it updated (through the application itself) and it should offer you some protection against crypto-style ransomware.
 
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Old 06-11-2017, 09:11 PM   #10
frankbell
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I agree with Hazel that Libraries are one of the most annoying aspects of Windows file exploder.

You can still access directories directly with a bit of hunting about.

There's an excellent free split-pane file manager for Windows called "Free Commander" that I have used for years. I also recommend Spybot S&D; I've used the free version for years. There's also a neat little program called VirtuaWin that enables multiple workspaces on Windows.

Also, take a look at this hosts file. It works very nicely on Windows or Linux (and, I would expect Mac) to reduce the annoyance of surfing the web. I would also strongly suggest installing Firefox or Vivaldi instead of Windows Internet Exploder.

Windows 10 has radically altered the Windows menu. Applications are listed alphabetically, and there's a Gnome/Unity-like search dialog which is much easier to navigate than the alphabetical list. It also seems to have the annoying Gnome-like habit of maximizing application windows on start-up. (The Windows 10 computer belongs to my girlfriend, so I haven't used it extensively. I got her a Dell All-in-One after consulting with her.)

Last edited by frankbell; 06-11-2017 at 09:17 PM.
 
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:25 AM   #11
jefm
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Thanks for all the replies, I'm taking notes. So many anti-mals to install!
Not reformatting. (For now... dun dun dunnnn). No dark webs. I'll have to be real careful what this plugs into, might get a VPN.
The library thing is upside down particularly in the realm of some kind of driver cache I had to figure out how to reduce years ago. A mystery folder in /windows/system/whatever had grown to 30G, I don't think we ever figured it out. Everyone knew where it was but the OS wouldn't let us do anything about it.
So long as MS has not killed Dropbox functionality in favor their cloud megopoly I think I'll be ok, about 90% of my file traffic is on DB.
 
Old 06-12-2017, 12:03 PM   #12
justmy2cents
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Here's a warning before you start. Modern versions of Windows don't store files where you expect. They have something called "libraries" which aren't libraries at all but virtual folders, quite independent of the actual directory structure. These virtual folders are all you see in your file manager; you have no easy way of finding out where things actually are.

I assume the whole thing must be held together by some network of symbolic links. I can't see any other way it could be done. And if the links get corrupted, there's almost no way of getting at the data. All you get when you try are weird error messages. This actually happened to a friend of mine.
Libraries provides a central place to manage files that are located multiple locations throughout the OS. Windows created the Volume Shadow Copy to back up entire volumes even if the file is open and being used by another application. The Volume Shadow Copy uses a service called Volume Snapshot Service (VSS) which is always running in the background, and you can see that for yourself if you look under services... Volume Shadow Copy also allows for reverting back to previous versions of files, and you do that by looking inside the properties of the target file/folder. At a minimum these previous versions are created once a day, but they can also be created through a backup process, or when you install an application which which will usually come with a restore to defaults option. You can find details on whats getting backed up and how much space is being used to store these file backups in /Control Panel/System/System Protection (an equlvalent to this in Windows 8/8.1/10 is File History which adds the additional feature of being able to store the files on an external drive. Another backup feature is System Restore which allows for reverting back to a previous OS configuration (useful if you install a device driver or an application that made changes to your OS that you didnt want) by creating restore points (note this does not guarantee recovery from viruses or spyware that know about your recovery files; restore points are created my Windows whenever you make a significant change to the OS by installing an app or driver). The System Restore utility can be found in /All Programs/Accessories/System Tools/System Restore (or System Protection Tab), or it can be triggered at boot by pressing F8/Advanced Bot Options/Repair..

For Windows I would download/use all these

-- Malwarebyres
-- Comodo AV (use their firewall, HIPS, sandbox, and AV)
-- CCleaner
-- Ninite
-- Recuva (recover deleted files that have not been overwritten)
-- DBAN (whole drive wipe secure data removal)
-- Sdelete (file level overwriting)


One important thing to note is the Windows registry which is where all the configuration files are stored, such as the kernel, device drivers, services, security account manager (SAM), UI, and apps (pretty much anything that has to do with Windows configuration settings; passwords are stored in SAM files). You can edit the registry with regedit (registry editor). The registry is hierarchically structured in "hives", and you can backup just a hive if you want, and that's a function built-in regedit. Overtime Windows gets slower cause of a clutter up of registry keys, and temporary files. The keys point to files and if those files are not there anymore then it's justs wasting time. Ccleaner solves this though by cleaning that stuff out, but make sure to backup your registry keys before running it (just in case)..

Last edited by justmy2cents; 06-12-2017 at 03:08 PM.
 
Old 06-12-2017, 01:08 PM   #13
ardvark71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefm View Post
Any other advice?
Hi...

I would second the suggestion for Malwarebytes, it's a great anti-malware application, however, if you're going to be using this system for work, you will most likely need to pay for a subscription. The free version is for personal use only.

Also, as you might be aware, Microsoft really took "phoning home" and data collection to a whole new level with Windows 10 and gave themselves the right to do so in the EULA, which you will need to agree to when installing it. Microsoft gave a few options to turn some of it off legally, which might help a little bit if you don't need or want the features. You can find some instructions for doing so here.

Regards...
 
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:31 PM   #14
wpeckham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardvark71 View Post
Hi...

I would second the suggestion for Malwarebytes, it's a great anti-malware application, however, if you're going to be using this system for work, you will most likely need to pay for a subscription. The free version is for personal use only.

Also, as you might be aware, Microsoft really took "phoning home" and data collection to a whole new level with Windows 10 and gave themselves the right to do so in the EULA, which you will need to agree to when installing it. Microsoft gave a few options to turn some of it off legally, which might help a little bit if you don't need or want the features. You can find some instructions for doing so here.

Regards...
Second that. Last time I ran Win10 I turned of EVERYTHING I could that spread communications both to other machines and back to Microsoft. Keep the instructions, as a pushed upgrade from MS can turn them all back on behind your back.

Also, unless you plan to use it, turn off HOMEGROUPS. In a domain that is a TERRIBLE waste of CPU and network bandwidth!

With all of that, I have to say that once you lock it down and figure out how to get around all of the Microsoft cruft and restrictions, it is not terrible. I prefer Linux by far, but it almost does not suck. You just have to keep managing and re-fixing it to keep it that way. I figure on about eight more years it might get as good ad WinXP was at its EOL.
 
Old 06-12-2017, 06:28 PM   #15
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Lightbulb

Hi.


If you get a good set of hardware like even this older ThinkPad T420 that has some virtualization tec in it, along with decent specs it can run microcoughed-losedough$ signed\unlocked and "updating"( as if) in VitualBox or other V-wares...

maybe even free from a quick search: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-u...rtual-machines

then have fun:( when you close it )!
 
  


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