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Old 04-07-2014, 02:00 PM   #61
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maples View Post
Nice...
Sure, you "forgot." But OTOH, if you're used to doing something a certain way and do it that way all the time, then it actually seems legitimately possible to forget to mention that it's a CLI login
I didn't say "forgot" (I said "neglected" as in figured if he had problems he would ask). I wish I could say it was a considered experiment (we secretly replaced these restaurant goers' usual brand of coffee with....) but I actually didn't give it much thought.

Additionally I have uptimes commonly measured in months. The 2 seconds login once every couple of months just doesn't seem noteworthy, nor was it a problem for my friend since it was, as usual, already up. I do prefer CLI login but it is not a requirement in Slackware.... just default until or unless it is changed.
 
Old 04-07-2014, 07:45 PM   #62
maples
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I have uptimes commonly measured in months.
I'd like to see any MS OS do that (with maybe the exception of the server editions...)
 
Old 04-08-2014, 07:50 AM   #63
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Being a programmer versus in support or client configuration, I'm less exposed to users in need.

As a user I live in Linux at work and home, but have Windows at both places; home for the family and at work because I have to develop for Windows. I do not feel that I miss any capabilities having Linux installed over Windows. In both cases, my solution is that the computers are entirely separate.

In the main, I feel that everyone in the business world uses Windows. Therefore if I develop a program of any type to send to a client to run, it needs to run under Windows. The rare persons who choose to run Apple or Linux deal with running our supplied programs on their own.

I think it's fine if people choose to work out of Apple or Linux, but I find it difficult to make cases for migration. Even with Android, people use that not because it's based off Linux, but because it's a mainstream thing that is on tablets and phones. Yes some, or many; people buy it because it's specially not an Apple product, and so I feel they decide to buy Android consciously because of their personal business decision, and less about the specific operating system.

The main few real reasons why "I" use Linux:
  1. Avoidance of Viruses and Obnoxious AdWare, MallWare, etc problems - although I'll grant that as a technical person I've developed behaviors over the years to avoid these problems, like installing Firefox and helpful add-ons.
  2. Fast boot, fast shut down, consistency in the OS, none of that "wait an hour while I install updates before I shut down", and overall stability of the operating system
  3. I can write a program almost within seconds, compile it, debug it, and use it effectively. Not to say one can't do that in Windows, but it is eminently easier and faster in Linux.
  4. I find that there are absolutely NO programs or content which I absolutely would require Windows for. None at all, Linux has come very far over the years.

All that said, I'm not a gamer, not into 3D animations or any form of graphics; rather instead just surf for reading the news or email, listen to music, or click on the uTube links which friends send as jokes. I agree that the normal user doesn't care or want to care about the operating system, they just want to know how to get to see what they want to see and they're happy to buy the next new widget if it promises to deliver that stuff for them.

Therefore I'd be hard pressed to push Linux on anyone. Much less my family; that's why the common computer is Windows, because if it were Linux, I'd have to constantly support everything for them and they'd never listen to me telling them how to do certain things on their own.

Secondary Note:
I gave up on iTunes because the five dollars, or so I have on there is not accessible because of some complex issue where I installed iTunes on this computer, that computer, etc and I've always used just iTunes cards; so because there's no payment method, that's one less way they can reset my account and allow me to de-authorize platforms. As a result there's no way I can "buy" any material, in spite of the fact that I know my password, the name of my first dog, as well as the manufacturer of my first car. Amazingly all my security questions, my password, and my email are suddenly considered insufficient to allow me to reset the amount of installed platforms. Many of which have not been used in years, because they no longer exist. What I've always done with the material was to immediately convert it to MP3 because I own a $20 MP3 player which has lasted me years. Apple meanwhile continues to strive to find new proprietary formats, they can call them open formats, but if you adroitly invent a new encoding method every few weeks, then it's very difficult for anyone to use that media somewhere else because you're constantly changing how media is deployed.

Try to develop for Apple devices and it's a bigger nightmare.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 11:34 AM   #64
battleship
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
The biggest reason persons don't switch is this, and it's one that is commonly omitted from discussions amongst geeks:

Most typical computer users have never and will never install a computer OS. If they can't bring it home with them on the computer, they won't--can't--use it. They may be very good at using specific applications (my girlfriend can make MS Word dance in circles on its head), but that does not mean they understand that it's all only ones and zeroes.

Persons who frequent places like this and who write articles for Linux sites and publications are not typical computer users.
That's it in a nutshell. I Still run into people who say I don't even know how to turn a computer on. At that statement I usually say something smartassed like "Do you know how to turn the lights on and off in a room?" But they see all the flash and glitz of Add campaigns.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 01:43 PM   #65
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There'$ a $ucker born every $econd.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 02:40 PM   #66
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
There'$ a $ucker born every $econd.
I know! Those people who value their time so poorly that they spend hours installing and configuring Linux.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 02:59 PM   #67
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Hours really? How about minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_CD http://manybooks.net/titles/williams...04freed10.html

Last edited by jamison20000e; 04-08-2014 at 03:00 PM.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:03 PM   #68
Germany_chris
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I think it was sarcastic
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:09 PM   #69
rtmistler
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I kinda get that it was sarcasm, and was just writing a brief question/challenge/comment on it ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
I know! Those people who value their time so poorly that they spend hours installing and configuring Linux.
I'm not following there. Are you knocking persons who try it because they think it's a hot idea and have no idea what they're in for and then their attitudes as they transit through that experience? Or knocking people who have some better experience, some intentions to explore, and knowingly go into things, but it goes badly and takes time for some reason?

I think you're implying the first variation. I disagree to some degree. Probably because most of the newbies I've seen on the forums seem to be giving it some level of fair shot, whether they ask effective questions or not. Like they title threads as "HELP ME!!!!", but many of them actually have tried to install but they grabbed an difficult distribution, or they're installing on one of the very few "tough to install on laptops", and fell prey to the law of unintended consequences. I'm wondering how many complete OS and/or Linux virgins actually just dumbly grab Linux and try to install it. For instance, they'd have to download it, burn a CD or format a thumbstick and then get their system to boot off of it. The "I want that widget to work now, now, now!" class of people wouldn't dream of trying that level of complexity.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:10 PM   #70
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
I know! Those people who value their time so poorly that they spend hours installing and configuring Linux.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
I think it was sarcastic
Not at all.
Tell me how to install Linux and get my iPhone to sync, my Netflix to work, my Nike jogging watch to exchange data and the macros in my spreadsheets to work without spending hours.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:12 PM   #71
rtmistler
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I should know, but does LQ in the FAQ or somewhere have sticky notes for things like:
  1. Best first choice distributions
  2. General advice on how to download and install a distribution
  3. Quick notes on red flags one ought to notice if they're trying an install and it ends up not booting
That's probably the biggest hindrance to a complete newbie. They jump in with both feet and they end up over their head in technical problems far beyond what they normally should have ended up dealing with.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:14 PM   #72
273
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Apologies, my point being that it's not a sucker to buy something that works. Spending hours to make Linux do something you could pay OSX or Windows to do means you value your time less than that money or you want to play with Linux.
You're not a "$ucker" because your time is worth more than somebody else's.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:15 PM   #73
rtmistler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Not at all.
Tell me how to install Linux and get my iPhone to sync, my Netflix to work, my Nike jogging watch to exchange data and the macros in my spreadsheets to work without spending hours.
Not a poor point to make. Is that not hours with Windows? I don't know, but I suspect that getting the iPhone to sync is pretty lengthy, because with any new system, you have to install the Apple-ware and establish credentials, and so forth. Netflix, I have no idea, it's a web-based service, but you mean to stream data "to" that PC, do you need to install any flash players or other media players, or download widgets? I'm sure you need to install stuff for the jogging watch, probably the shortest item to install and get running.

The other difference is likely in Windows when you sync the phone or the watch, the apps pop up automatically, but for Linux, maybe, maybe not; right?
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:21 PM   #74
273
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@rtmistler:
You install iTunes under Windows and it works.
Netflix apparently works now, but I've not yet risked my currently working install to try. It may work but if it doesn't I have no support or legal comeback.
Nike watch was an example picked from the air.

My point being that the few dollars you pay fro a proprietary OS pay for a heck or a lot of convenience and legal rights that you do not get with Linux.
I use Linux because I prefer the way things work and I like the idea of GPL free software. However, there's not a single month that goes by where I don't see an example of why I ought to buy an OS.
 
Old 04-08-2014, 03:22 PM   #75
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Frankbell said it back in post 14 and 273's comment in post 70 I think are highly relevant to the OP's list of questions/reasons.

- The completely unfamiliar computer person just wants it to work.
- The amount of high level solution for plug-and-play exists for Windows, maybe even Mac, but may or may not exist for all devices in Linux.
 
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