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-   -   "Now that we are all aware of your 'needs'. What are your 'deeds'?" (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/now-that-we-are-all-aware-of-your-needs-what-are-your-deeds-4175523395/)

onebuck 10-26-2014 12:03 PM

"Now that we are all aware of your 'needs'. What are your 'deeds'?"
 
Hi,

This is not a rant but a means to help fellow LQ members.

The past few weeks I have noticed a lot of posts that are not the norm here at LQ. Some new members seem to think that LQ is a help desk. Sure LQ members here do help when they can provide useful tips or answers to typical questions. But when a member posts a request for a detail list of help to perform a task then that to me shows lack on the part of the OP to attempt to help themselves; "Now that we are all aware of your 'needs'. What are your 'deeds'?" does apply.

Even when a member responds to the questionnaire poster with good useful information and that same OP doesn't follow the suggestion then goes on to do the opposite or damaging procedure then posts back a rebuttal. The member who has spent time posting a solid valid suggestion to that same OP then replies that instructions should have been followed instead of mangling the suggestion. That OP then replies absurd responses as to why. That is when I will promptly remove myself from the thread unless moderation is required. Why waste time with someone who will not take instructions or suggested advice? To this issue of the OP I suggest;
Quote:

FYI: I suggest that you look at 'How to Ask Questions the Smart Way' so in the future your queries provide information that will aid us in diagnosis of the problem or query.
I know some members will say 'trolls'. Sometimes it is trolling but at other times it is a member who truly wants help but does not understand the instructions. Maybe English not being first language can cause this misunderstanding. But when the questioning member is from a English speaking locale then it is a form of troll or just someone who wants inveigle discussions or incite arguments/flame wars. As mod, I see this all the time. Someone posts a query and a respondent member will post back a post that seems to be somewhat helpful but expands into alliterate post. Respondents should read;
Quote:

FYI: How to Answer a Linux Question is ‘Simon Bridge's excellent composition to aid us in good informational exchanges.'
Then we have respondents that do nothing more than incite by posting a taunting irrelevant post to get a angered response to take the thread off topic. If that same member would give some thought or research on the topic instead of injecting provocative information that is not relevant. We all would be better off. To that member I flip my topic to state; "Now that we are all aware of your 'deeds'. What are your 'needs'?"
Why the non-constructive post? Post relative constructive information or do not post at all! Injection of your self promoting position or incitement post have no place here at LQ.

No names of LQ members have been presented or links to threads for obvious reasons. Violators that read this know who they are!

All LQ members should frequently refresh their understanding of LQ Rules so that you do not fall into this trap or other violations.

All members can have fun by helping other members here at LQ with positive constructive replies. Enlighten each other;
Quote:

"It is one of the most beautiful compensations in life…that no man can sincerely try to help another without helping himself." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
I have been including these lines in my post(s) for a reason of positive closure;
Hope this helps.
Have fun & enjoy!
:hattip:

sag47 10-26-2014 04:51 PM

Very nice post; thanks for sharing.

rokytnji 10-26-2014 05:33 PM

Quote:

I know some members will say 'trolls'. Sometimes it is trolling but at other times it is a member who truly wants help but does not understand the instructions. Maybe English not being first language can cause this misunderstanding.
I am giving the benefit of the doubt to a member here that falls I think into that category. Right now I have a friends request pending that I just won't approve.

Teamviewer is being asked for and suggestions in a thread I have posted have been ignored. Either because of the language barrieror the OP is schitzo. If it was because my suggestions were off base. Then why the friends and teamviewer request? Either way. I will not approve the friends request because of the schitzo behavior. You may not call that me giving the benefit of the doubt.
But, trying to help does not make me become a fool. I am having a hard time expressing myself I guess.

I am either being bamboozled or the member truly wants help. Because 5 or 6 threads on the same subject showed up on this forum.
I am going with schitzo though. I can only help so far on this forum till common sense tells me to back off. Besides. I am no genius.
Just a Linux using Biker.

So yes. Some weird things going on here. I just erased my profile on another forum just recently.
I did not like where it was heading over there. This one at least has a more grownup membership. Even the young ones
here are polite, attentive, and responsive.

Nice thread and long overdue.

frankbell 10-26-2014 08:56 PM

One of the things I learned when I worked tech support is that many persons who need help have no idea what information may be relevant and don't stop to think about it. Generally, before I could help them, I had to try to see through their eyes to figure out what was really happening, as opposed to what they thought was happening. I was constantly saying, "Do [some command] and tell me what you see," until I drilled down to what was really going on.

If I went back and analyzed posts I've made that as my first post to someone asking for help with a technical problem, I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that 75% of them are asking questions for information that by all rights should have been provided in the first place: distro/version, software version, exact wording of error messages, and the like.

I cut my teeth in newsgroups. In newsgroups, requests for help lacking crucial background would have been flamed mercilessly. One of the things I like about LQ is that, here, LQers have the patience to keep trying to help, though I do admit the frustration is sometimes frustrating, as frustration is wont to be.

cynwulf 10-27-2014 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokytnji (Post 5259980)
Teamviewer is being asked for and suggestions in a thread I have posted have been ignored.

Teamviewer? i.e. "remote log in and fix my broken system for me"? The answer is two words, second word "that".

If someone is that desperate for someone to remote login to fix their system, then clearly it's not their system. I would back up and reinstall before going to those lengths. In that kind of scenario I would suspect someone in a paid role, wanting someone else to do their work for them.

Habitual 10-27-2014 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebuck (Post 5259883)
But when a member posts a request for a detail list of help to perform a task then that to me shows lack on the part of the OP to attempt to help themselves...

20 years in IT have taught me many things. The first being I am not the first, nor am I the last person to experience a problem with "x".

While many times some users do not know what is causing 'x' and are dealing with symptoms, not causes.

I try to deal with the cause, not the symptom. Some users are lost to that relationship, they just want 'x' to work.
The seemingly are unable to determine if the reported issue is a cause or a symptom.

I have lost my desire to try and help those who show no inclination to do the "leg work" and expect to be spoon-fed every single solution, or can not or will not follow direction.

You are not alone, onebuck.

cynwulf 10-27-2014 09:23 AM

Yes, many people just want the "fix" and they resent interference of the kind which questions why they're doing it and if they need to be doing it that way.

If you go to a forum seeking assistance presumably you don't know something and you're assuming that someone else does - otherwise why ask for help? If you post something along the lines of "I want to do xyz" and someone responds with "you should not and do not need to do xyz, here is how to do abc <link to manual>", it's correct to actually research this and see if they have a point rather than just dismissing them and repeating the question.

Many predict this outcome in fact and deliberately hide much of what they've done or are trying to do to try and steer/channel the person responding into delivering exactly what they want - rather than dissuading them from doing it - there is often no interest in discussing the problem openly or sharing anything they have found while researching it. Such people just want a sticking plaster and they want some stranger on a forum to deliver it quickly and for free - some even believe they're somehow entitled to that.

DavidMcCann 10-27-2014 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynwulf (Post 5260275)
If you post something along the lines of "I want to do xyz" and someone responds with "you should not and do not need to do xyz, here is how to do abc <link to manual>", it's correct to actually research this and see if they have a point rather than just dismissing them and repeating the question.

But sometimes the respondent just hasn't stopped to think whether the querent actually has a good reason for doing xyz. There was a case some while ago where someone setting up a MUD server wanted to configure the firewall to allow telnet access. Lots of people promptly explained the evils of telnet, oblivious to the fact that it's the normal way to access MUD.

Sometimes an "obvious" question turns out to be not so obvious. Today, someone asked how to download an evaluation version of Red Hat. Out of curiosity, and since they obviously weren't an English speaker, I looked for the answer. Someone should explain to RH the "three clicks rule" and the benefits of checking ones site for dead links. It took me over 5 minutes!

And then there's the respondent who answers the question they want to answer, rather than the one that was asked a type familiar to teachers and examiners.

No, those seeking help may sometimes be lazy, but more often they're genuinely lost.

jeremy 10-27-2014 03:58 PM

Note that there is now a discussion related to this going on in the LQS&F forum. I'm going to close this thread to keep all discussion in one place. Additional comments and feedback are welcome.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ts-4175523397/

--jeremy


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