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Old 07-18-2004, 03:26 PM   #16
SciYro
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ugenn: if hardware makers would care to do there jobs and just make hardware, then they wouldn't have to worry about some loose standards in Linux.... besides usually standards means less choices (reticular when referring to the desktop, the X protocol and few standards from freedesktop.org are really quite efficient for making apps that can still have choices, while being able to be compatible with other apps (talk to them and transfer data, like URI's))

tho, a standard kernel thingy wouldn't hurt

but back to the point!, if hardware makers would just make there stupid hardware nice and clean and good, people will buy it... they are after all hardware makers, why should they make software?, as far as i see it, they should just make the hardware, and release the specs on it so people can make good full drivers for it for whatever OS they want
 
Old 07-18-2004, 03:53 PM   #17
ugenn
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Quote:
Originally posted by SciYro
ugenn: if hardware makers would care to do there jobs and just make hardware, then they wouldn't have to worry about some loose standards in Linux.... besides usually standards means less choices (reticular when referring to the desktop, the X protocol and few standards from freedesktop.org are really quite efficient for making apps that can still have choices, while being able to be compatible with other apps (talk to them and transfer data, like URI's))

The desktop is something that is common and important enough to warrant a better standard. Having to include support for QT, GTK and whatever else is a drawback for 3rd party developers, not an advantage. A standard toolkit and desktop API would really boost Linux's role on the desktop. Freedom of choice can't be taken too literally and extremely. It is great in some areas, absolute havoc in others. Core APIs is one area where choice isn't a good thing.


but back to the point!, if hardware makers would just make there stupid hardware nice and clean and good, people will buy it... they are after all hardware makers, why should they make software?, as far as i see it, they should just make the hardware, and release the specs on it so people can make good full drivers for it for whatever OS they want


They make the software as they know best how the thing works. Sure, with tech specs, some hardcore hackers might be able to put together a driver for <insert favourite opensource OS here> after a while. But do you wish to purchase brand new cutting edge hw only to find that you have to wait for some 3rd party to release drivers, while in the meantime use that Hyper3DSuper2000 gfx card as a $500 paperweight? I certainly don't.
 
Old 07-19-2004, 05:22 AM   #18
tbfirefox
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A few limitations I have found is 1) the sound: there are a few problems like sound not working sometimes, sound not working after using certain applications, and sound being scratchy playing cds. 2) Graphics: on my Radeon 7000 the acceleration is ok, but I notice that games run slower - like neverwinter night. This is a linux native and windows game, and it runs faster in windows on the same computer.

I have found that my scanner works very well. I have a hp psc 1210, its an all-in-one, and the printing and scanning work fine (in newer distros only though, mdk 9.2 and fedora 1 and up i think). My winmodem was a pain, there are drivers, but with some distros they are hard to get. My hardware modem works without drivers.

Video is fine for me, I can play dvds, videos etc. without problems.
 
Old 07-19-2004, 06:43 AM   #19
chakkerz
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ah for goodness sake.

Next XP users will whinge their network cards aren't recognised, and their DOS games don't work properly.

Quote:
Summary So Far:
1) Poor Compatible Hardware/Drivers
2) Scanner Limitation
3) Poor Graphics
4) Poor Sound
5) Poor Movies
6) Inability to use Windows Software
7) Most special software is not made for Linux
1) BS. i may have missed something, but ATi's cards not working properly is not Linux's fault. As for scanners and printers - look there are devices that work, BUY the right ones AFTER checking the web.
2) see 1
3) see 1
4) ok, now the Creative Labs range is not 100% up to spec with their drivers being not so great. Games still take advantage of EAX and so forth (according to Linux game developers . see LinuxWorld for April)
5) see 3 - install a better player, xine and mplayer are both doing fine
6) you may or may not have noticed, but Gameboy doesn't run Playstation games, Cars don't opperate on full tanks of water, and you can't pay with Australian currency in Poland. ... why you ask ? because it wasn't meant to be used that way. Get WineX if you are keen, but as some sources say (Raymond - Art of Unix Programming) linux is "by programmers for programmers". You have a problem with any of these points ... code the software yourself.
7) Special software ... there is more special software for linux than there is for any OS base. so i'm assuming by special you mean "the software i know / like to use to do XYZ" well ... odds are if you can't use linux to do your work ... then don't use it.

I know i may sound mean and horrible here, but seriously... if it's no good for you, then don't use it. play with it, learn, upset the wife, but don't complain, fix what is wrong. Sure not everyone is a software engineer and sure not everyone has the time to do what is necessary to make Linux work for them ... but it is a community effort ...

there are people that devote their spare time to linux because it's not finished yet, it never will be... there are always advances and ... that is why forums such as this exist.

Linux is more than an OS, it's a community, it's a spirit, it's a hobby and, i hope this one is wrong, it's a lifestyle.

You wouldn't look at a half finished Mona Lisa and say to Da Vinci "that's not that grand is it". Linux has the brightest people in the world working on it. Not just code, HCI and everything. It's not finished, but ... surely you see it is getting there.
 
Old 07-19-2004, 07:01 AM   #20
rvijay
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Quote:
Originally posted by chakkerz

there are people that devote their spare time to linux because it's not finished yet, it never will be... there are always advances and ... that is why forums such as this exist.

Linux is more than an OS, it's a community, it's a spirit, it's a hobby and, i hope this one is wrong, it's a lifestyle.

You wouldn't look at a half finished Mona Lisa and say to Da Vinci "that's not that grand is it". Linux has the brightest people in the world working on it. Not just code, HCI and everything. It's not finished, but ... surely you see it is getting there. [/B]
Agreed with all of the above. That is why I am a Linux user. All the drawbacks are typed/discussed as a positive/friendly feedback only.

Vijay
 
Old 07-19-2004, 11:27 AM   #21
cck23
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I would agree that linux is partly for "hobbyists", but I do hope that that chages in the future and that it becomes more mainstream. At the moment, things are looking good and linux is gaining exposure

I would also add, you would not want to live in a world where you can only buy one manufacturer of DVD player, one car, one type of bread, one TV channel, so come on....Linux might not be easy but neither is working out, thinking, learning a language or swimming but we all learn to do these things and reap the rewards, dont expect to get something without putting a little effort in yourself.
 
Old 07-19-2004, 11:32 PM   #22
jpat1023
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I like everything about linux. I like that sometimes I have to work a little harder to get something to work. I like that linux isn't as mainstream as winblows. I like that some poeple haven't even heard of it. I think of linux as a hobby, it lets you really get your hands dirty with computers. I learn something new everytime I turn on the old linux box. I'm tired of hearing people complain about it not being as easy to use as windows, of course its not as easy to use, thats not what its ment for.

chakkerz
(Raymond - Art of Unix Programming) linux is "by programmers for programmers". You have a problem with any of these points ... code the software yourself.

Exactly.
 
Old 07-20-2004, 12:05 AM   #23
vxc69
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I don't use a scanner and so far it seems that I can find anything to work under Linux.

However, I have found out that I cannot run some wmv's. But that's windows fault (I'm sure) and all I have to do is wait for mplayer to come up with some solution for these types of files!

Overall I would say Linux rocks and shame on all manufacturers who neglect Linux.

BTW, if I were you I'd rather get a Linux compatible scanner and sell the win-scanner on e-bay for something like $1 (maximum) and e-mail the manufacturer telling them that their 2 bit winblows scanner is on sale. If they reply with a "I don't give" tone or if they don't reply at all, I'll break the glass thing and take a sh*t in the scanner and post it to the manufacturers CEO! (Hope it's not a flat-bed cause that would be real messy.)

,

vxc69

p.s: I'll also take pictures of the whole mess and post it to the CEO's family and friends!
 
Old 07-20-2004, 12:18 AM   #24
2damncommon
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Quote:
1) Poor Compatible Hardware/Drivers
2) Scanner Limitation
3) Poor Graphics
4) Poor Sound
5) Poor Movies
6) Inability to use Windows Software
7) Most special software is not made for Linux
Major Linux drawbacks?
Scanner limitation - can I blame Linux for not being able to use the scanner I acquired that has a power source that overheats? It scans one item great, then begins to overheat and freezes on one of the next several scans. Checking hardware compatibllity lists is a great idea.
An unqualified "poor graphics"? You're not serious here? Checking hardware compatibllity lists is a great idea.
An unqualified "poor sound"? You're not serious here? Checking hardware compatibllity lists is a great idea.
Poor movies? The last time I checked, a default install of Windows will not display Real Player or DIVX format video without further action from the user. You need to install more stuff in Linux too. Or check out Turbolinux?
6 and 7 both refer to software not made for Linux. A check for ports, emulators, or substitutes will answer many of these types of questions. Windows XP not only has problems with some DOS programs but cannot run most MAC or VMS and Plan 9 programs. Is this a drawback for Windows? No, it is a consideration for any user wishing to move from one OS to another.
While a "Linux drawback" thread is quite interesting, lumping every problem into an unqualified problem is ridiculous.
 
Old 07-20-2004, 10:54 PM   #25
chakkerz
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hmm ... no i disagree that Linux is a hobbyist thing .. hobbyist for the home, yes, hobbyist for servers, No.

The reason is of course, servers are fast CPUs with stable proven hardware in them. as such linux support is excellent, in fact it exists for many cutting edge hardware components. For the home however, linux support is less because ... too much hardware exists and too many toys come out. What's a fad and what's longterm? And if the hardware manufacturers don't add support, then who will. backward engineering drivers is a bitch ...

incidentally ... people still use scanners :-P But seriously of course the goal is to have everything working, but i accept my Laser printer is a paperweight. heck it was a hunk of second hand carp to start with, and when i bought it i wasn't anywhere near as commited to linux ... that said sure would be nice to have it working ...
 
Old 07-20-2004, 11:12 PM   #26
jpat1023
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chakkerz
hmm ... no i disagree that Linux is a hobbyist thing .. hobbyist for the home, yes, hobbyist for servers, No.

I agree with that. When I said Linux is mostly a hobby I didn't mean a hobby for expensive, cutting edge servers. I was talkin about home like you said.
 
Old 07-20-2004, 11:29 PM   #27
MikeZila
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I don't like where this thread is going.

Why focus on the bad points of Linux? I mean, this isn't exactly the kind of thing you want a newbie stumbling in and seeing, that'll scare em' off for good. I've yet to see a flamewar break out in my short (about a half-year) stay at LQ, I'm not about to stick around for one now.

I'm staying out of this one.

Last edited by MikeZila; 07-21-2004 at 12:34 AM.
 
Old 07-21-2004, 12:03 AM   #28
amosf
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Linux is not a hobby here. It is the main workstation in our home-office. WE use it as the main desktop OS because it's stable, reliable and has all the software needed. I want to just install and set up the OS and then just use it without having to worry about the latest virus or worm threat. Linux does with the minimal abount of updating and setting up. There are some apparent limitations when you view linux from a windows perspective, but the limitation of windows are immense when you look at it from a linux perspective. It really depends on your point of view...
 
Old 07-21-2004, 01:07 AM   #29
chakkerz
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I use Linux and open source software for about 95% my work. There is the occasionaly piece of software whose function i have yet to see replicated or improved up on Linux. (SPSS is one, though apparently there is software out there that does it ... that said it's being supplied to me anyways).

In terms of professional work, linux is not a hobby. That said. does the office desktop system need the latest drivers for NVidia ? No because .. one would hope you / the staff aren't playing games. Also, odds are you don't toy with the kernel, or modify lame (let alone use lame) just to see what will happen. WHY? Because, as before, you office system is not there for that reason.

You can't tell me, there are linux pro's out there that don't do that sort of thing in their spare time though. This isn't a "if it's not broken don't fix it" issue, it's learning experience issue. Any pro that tells me s/he knows all s/he needs to know, and hence don't toy with computers, should not be using a computer. Why not? because they are not prepared to deal with today's challenges.

Seen it all ?? Nonsense. You might know how to configure X in your sleep, but what about multimon? Knew that already without learning? You shouldn't be working in IT you should be doing quantum mechanics. No IT is learning and you should be enjoying learning. There is no point to being in IT and not continuing to learn because that is part of the fun.
 
Old 07-21-2004, 06:12 AM   #30
Andronik
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I know one main limitation.

fact that windows is so whidespread, and ignorant web designers who think "IE is da BROWSER"


everything else is possible to fix.
 
  


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