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Old 04-02-2004, 05:49 PM   #1
GM287
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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Sydney - OZ
Distribution: Slackware 9.1
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Unhappy Linux Makes Me Feel Like an Idiot


So I've been using Microsoft for ages and decide to take the plunge with Linux - Mandrake 10.0.

Looks exciting, easy, transition no sweat...

But can I install a Speedtouch USB modem? No. Can I get my network going? No. Even if I could get my network going, where would I browse?

Guys this is the steepest learning curve I've faced in computing and Linux just does not make life easy.

Why, for example, do I need to a) discover b) install gcc compilers etc just to install a USB modem? Why didn't MDK come with them pre-installed? Isn't it one of those background things an o/s should have?

Or is everything in Linux in the foreground?

Can someone give me some encouragement? An incentive? A reason to continue?
 
Old 04-02-2004, 05:57 PM   #2
Andrew Benton
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It's up to you, you're free to choose, but if you want help from strangers for free, it helps if you ask nicely. Is it a 330 or one of the old green Speedtouch?
 
Old 04-02-2004, 06:10 PM   #3
Komakino
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As a rule of thumb you should always install the basic devel packages - gcc, make, libtool, autoconf, automake, gtk-devel. It just makes life easier because it's pretty much certain you're going to have to compile something at some point, and you know what? It's a damn site more convenient than trying to solve package dependencies.
 
Old 04-02-2004, 06:12 PM   #4
Bruce Hill
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: McCalla, AL, USA
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Re: Linux Makes Me Feel Like an Idiot

Quote:
Originally posted by GM287
Can someone give me some encouragement? An incentive? A reason to continue?
Actually, everything in Windoze happens more in the background than in Linux. In
Windoze, there is only the GUI for installing software. In Linux, you can compile from
source at command line and issue the -v (verbose) switch and watch everything as
it happens.

Encouragement - hang in there, dude! Welcome to LQ!

Incentive - you'll learn how your computer works, and customize it to do that in the
most efficient way for your hardware. You'll spend more hours reading and working
with Linux than you've ever spent with anything. Down the road you'll begin to get
a feeling of accomplishment, as you build apps, rather than some GUI doing it.

Reason to continue - Micro$loth Windoze

Advice - use the search button at the top of this thread. Many people needed help
getting a Speedtouch USB modem working. Search www.google.com/linux also. Read
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way so that you'll give the proper info to get good answers.

Don't give up! Learn Linux and you'll love it!!!
 
Old 04-02-2004, 07:01 PM   #5
LapisRaven
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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Missouri
Distribution: Fedora Core 1
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Quote:
Originally posted by Komakino
It's a damn site more convenient than trying to solve package dependencies.
Amen brother!
and the beauty of it is....the compile directions are almost always in the tarball.....if not then
./config
make
make install
almost always works
Always check the distros website for hardware compatiblitiy info
understand that everything doesnt work everytime (ie: recursive error)
and dont be surprised if you dont work your way through every distro in the first year until you find your comfort zone.
My last piece of advise is.....this is the best place to get questions answered...BUT...the documentation (paper and MAN pages) is the best first choice.
unfortunately...our community is full of arrogant *nix gurus who love to flame newbies just because they are too impatient and want human input first (thats understandable) most of the twits that flame newbies figure that since they themselves screwed up a kernal update 11 times...that everyone should enjoy the misery
 
Old 04-02-2004, 08:20 PM   #6
Kovacs
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Google is your friend.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Speed...utf-8&oe=utf-8
 
Old 04-02-2004, 08:49 PM   #7
mikshaw
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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Maine, USA
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The thing about gcc was mentioned, bit I thought I'd add that compiling the applications yourself will also result in a more stable installation. It will be configured for your system specifically.

"Why didn't MDK come with them pre-installed? Isn't it one of those background things an o/s should have?"
Not at all. Microsoft has merely convinced the general population that this is the way things should be done. The result is a bulky system including a thousand unnecessary drivers, about which most people have very little knowledge, and when problems arise they are left with no option but to reinstall or have a professional geek fix it.
 
Old 04-02-2004, 08:54 PM   #8
Crashed_Again
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Linux makes me feel like an idiot too sometimes. Its okay. If you are interested in computer science then Linux is for you. It forces you to learn things. Windows does everything for you.

<GEEKNESS>Linux sets you free like Neo in The Matrix. Your eyes are hurting because you've never used them before. </GEEKNESS>
 
Old 04-02-2004, 09:00 PM   #9
Bruce Hill
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Re: Linux Makes Me Feel Like an Idiot

Quote:
Originally posted by GM287
So I've been using Microsoft for ages and decide to take the plunge with Linux - Mandrake 10.0.

Looks exciting, easy, transition no sweat...

But can I install a Speedtouch USB modem? No. Can I get my network going? No. Even if I could get my network going, where would I browse?
Now that you've got a little more feedback, that doesn't sound like "no sweat."
Sounds like a lot of sweat on the way, to me. When you get your network setup
and you're ready to browse, get Mozilla Firefox.

Quote:
Guys this is the steepest learning curve I've faced in computing and Linux just does not make life easy.
Did you ever install one of your Windoze OSes? Have you ever had to tech a broken
Windoze box? Have you had to find a driver for some exotic hardware, when the one
provided in Windoze did not work? Those are learning curves that are quite vertical!

Quote:
Why, for example, do I need to a) discover b) install gcc compilers etc just to install a USB modem? Why didn't MDK come with them pre-installed? Isn't it one of those background things an o/s should have?
Because the distro you chose doesn't install those by default. If you really want to
learn and use Linux long-term, you should try Slackware, Debian or Gentoo --
Slack being the best of the three IMCAO.
 
Old 04-02-2004, 09:29 PM   #10
2damncommon
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Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Calif, USA
Distribution: PCLINUXOS
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Quote:
Can someone give me some encouragement? An incentive? A reason to continue?
I will just give my stock, "Linux is not Windows. They are 2 different operating systems. Although there are a lot of seemingly similar things, there are many many things that are very different. Things begin to seem a lot more "normal" when you begin to see this."

Oh, and my stock "Good Luck", also.
 
Old 04-03-2004, 02:28 AM   #11
trickykid
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Registered: Jan 2001
Posts: 24,149

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/me thinks Windows makes himself feel like an idiot since he really only uses Linux now and lost all his Windows skills..

I always say, learn something and stick to it before giving up. You wouldn't jump in a plane not ever flying one expecting to know how to fly it without some learning and pratice first now would you? Just a thought!
 
Old 04-03-2004, 03:54 AM   #12
Lleb_KCir
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Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Orlando FL
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 1,765

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here is a bit of encouragement for you. im a mega M$ guy, not by love of that company for anything other then a very powerful marketing tool but because it was easy to learn and had the software i needed/need to run my business.

there are some very good and worthwhile books out there that will/can help with the learning curve.

the best one i have found FOR ME was Beginning Linux Red Hat 9. cost me roughly $40 and came with the 2 set CD to install RH9.

the book is written in a way that alows a M$ guy to pick things up rather fast, both for the CLI (command line) and for the GUI side of things.

as for the USB mouse issue, ive not even tried to fight with that yet, i just stick with a standard PS2 mouse, but i do have luck with RH detecting my USB scroll mouse from logitech, sadly it will not auto detec (nor have any other distros) my logitech trackman trackball.

the learning curve is extreemly high, but i can tell you this. the guys/girls here are extreemly helpful and knowledgable about *nix and very willing to give aid.

learn to use www.google.com and the man pages in addition to the serch function here.

can not enphisize(sp?) how important that is. give it time if you like, but i can tell you this. the only reason i am not moving my office to 100% *nix is that my all in one HP printer 2210xi does not have any *nix drivers that i have been able to find yet. if i could find some drivers that work with my printer then i would shell out the time and money to move 100% to *nix and away from M$.

i enjoy the power, freedom, stability, and speed of *nix so much more then i do M$.

only thing M$ really does better then *nix is games and at the office i dont really need to play games.
 
Old 04-03-2004, 06:11 AM   #13
Bruce Hill
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lleb_KCir
as for the USB mouse issue
It wasn't a mouse, it was a modem.
Quote:
the only reason i am not moving my office to 100% *nix is that my all in one HP printer 2210xi does not have any *nix drivers that i have been able to find yet. if i could find some drivers that work with my printer then i would shell out the time and money to move 100% to *nix and away from M$
Have you checked LinuxPrinting dot org?
 
Old 04-05-2004, 05:18 PM   #14
GM287
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Sydney - OZ
Distribution: Slackware 9.1
Posts: 16

Original Poster
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Red face Success! Installation of Modem: 4 days, 4 hours

IMO, when you first convert to Linux (as I have just done) survival instincts are at play. 3 basic needs must be filled immediately:

1. Food
2. Shelter
3. ADSL Modem connection

Without all three happiness is distant. Constant reboots to Win in order to get on the forums (´fora´) etc.

This post is my experience of the last week since I first posted in frustration ´Linux Makes Me Feel Like an Idiot´. How did I get the Speedtouch USB to work?

1. Re-Installed Mandrake 10.0 with all the options I could tick. Why? Because you need the developer tools, for starters, and trying to install them afterwards takes longer with more errors than doing it in a clean install.

2. Downloaded the latest 2.6.5 kernel. This was not because I´m cutting edge but because the install of Mandrake (MDK) does not give me a /usr/src/linux/ directory.

3. Installed the kernel using the following website as a guide: http://www.linuxheadquarters.com/how...pilation.shtml
Brent Fox has made it super easy, just save the web files and follow closely

4. Before compiling (you´ll understand what I mean when you read Brent Fox´s guide) you must edit the usb.c file you now find on the newly created path in /usb/src/linux/drivers/usb/core/usb.c by following these instructions: http://www.mail-archive.com/speedtou.../msg05299.html (thanks to Andrew Benton for the link).
Use GEdit - but note you may need to copy the file to your linux desktop first to get file permission, and then copy it back later
Eg, in konsole type:
su - (you become root user)
cd /
cp /usb/src/linux/drivers/usb/core/usb.c /home/nick/Desktop
(now edit the file on desktop)
cp /home/nick/Desktop/usb.c /usb/src/linux/drivers/usb/core/
(overwrite ´ý´)

5. Compile the kernel per the guide.

6. Reboot (hopefully successful) then download speedtouchconf from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/speedtouchconf/

7. Learn how to install tar.gz files (I find the GUI as easy as the command line)

8. Run the script created by typing ´´sh speedtouchconf.sh´´

9. Answer the questions. If you are in Sydney, Australia, the VCI code you need is
8 35

10. You should connect. You can now konquer mandrake, linux, anything in the whole wide world.

Note that I am a total noobie and as in my subject line, this took me 4 days to solve.
Using Benoit Papillaut´s howto was a distraction and unnecessary, I don´t recommend following it unless you really really can´t get the speedtouchconf script running.

And can I write a big THANK YOU to all who helped me on this forum. Andrew Benton, sh1ft, acid-kewpie, all the posts above.

Nick
GM287

PS Now can someone tell me why my apostrophe key is all strange in linux?
 
Old 04-05-2004, 07:04 PM   #15
Andrew Benton
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Re: Success! Installation of Modem: 4 days, 4 hours

Well done for getting it working. That's a steep learning curve! New to Linux and straight away you have to recompile the kernel just to get online...
Quote:
Originally posted by GM287
PS Now can someone tell me why my apostrophe key is all strange in linux?
It sounds like you have the wrong keymap loaded. You should be able to change it with the Mandrake Control Centre, or if you look in /etc/X11/XF86Config there is a section which should look something like this
Code:
# **********************************************************************
# Core keyboard's InputDevice section
# **********************************************************************

Section "InputDevice"

    Identifier	"Keyboard1"
    Driver	"Keyboard"

# For most OSs the protocol can be omitted (it defaults to "Standard").
# When using XQUEUE (only for SVR3 and SVR4, but not Solaris),
# uncomment the following line.

#    Option     "Protocol"      "Xqueue"

    Option "AutoRepeat" "500 30"

# Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1))
#    Option	"Xleds"      "1 2 3"

#    Option "LeftAlt"     "Meta"
#    Option "RightAlt"    "ModeShift"

# To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the
# lines below (which are the defaults).  For example, for a non-U.S.
# keyboard, you will probably want to use:
#    Option "XkbModel"    "pc102"
# If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use:
#    Option "XkbModel"    "microsoft"
#
# Then to change the language, change the Layout setting.
# For example, a german layout can be obtained with:
#    Option "XkbLayout"   "de"
# or:
#    Option "XkbLayout"   "de"
#    Option "XkbVariant"  "nodeadkeys"
#
# If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and
# control keys, use:
#    Option "XkbOptions"  "ctrl:swapcaps"

# These are the default XKB settings for XFree86
#    Option "XkbRules"    "xfree86"
#    Option "XkbModel"    "pc101"
#    Option "XkbLayout"   "us"
#    Option "XkbVariant"  ""
#    Option "XkbOptions"  ""

#    Option "XkbDisable"

    Option "XkbRules"	"xfree86"
    Option "XkbModel"	"pc105"
    Option "XkbLayout"	"gb"

EndSection
As the comments make clear, it's the "XkbLayout" option you need to alter. More info here http://www.xfree86.org/current/XKB-Config2.html
 
  


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