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Old 07-12-2005, 02:57 AM   #1
fieldyweb
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Linux Inside


Probably the wrong forum, and this is neither a complaint, a comparison or a winge, its a marketing idea....

I was looking for a picture the other day on the net, and came accross a "Linux Inside" logo.. and the concept of sticker on products which says "Linux compatible" might be a bonus.. I've got Linux on the laptop, and 90% of the addons, HP Office Jet 1210, IR Mouse, PCMCIA WiFi card are working.... there are some other cheesy products like a 10 quid GadMei tuner card and a 5quid Webcam, which are never gonna work, and i'm happy to purchase replacements (the wifes not, but i am...) And yes i can look upon the net (which i will) but it would be nice if those honourable hardware manufacturers who do make the effort, advertised thier product with a sitcker, much like they do to get on microsoft good side...

that way when i'm in the local IT emporium, i don't meed my Wifi PDA loking up on the net to see if there are drivers for the produced...

Its not linux isn't becoming a more viable desktop option, ok its a bugger sometimes, but stuff like OpenOffice, Firefox and evolution are making it a serious alternative for some people, now they just need to sort out which hardware addon works and which doesn't and who knows if it becomes a seller, maybe more people will make thier hardware linux compatible???
 
Old 07-12-2005, 03:58 AM   #2
fouldsy
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It's a good idea and some manufacturers do print on the box compatible with Linux kernel x.x.x sometimes, but it's so hard to ensure that there is compatibility with so many distributions and possible combinations of how users have those devices configured. Manufacturers such as nVidia are very good at producing Linux drivers and setup instructions, but a lot still comes down to the distro builders to ensure they have a decent hardware detection system and build in as many modules as possible to ensure as many devices as possible will work straight away.

If manufacturers said "This is 100% compatible with SuSE Linux" for example, then people might get the wrong idea and think it will *only* work with SuSE. Would be very hard for hardware manufacturers to test their products on such a variety of systems!

Generally I do a check online before purchasing hardware and usually buy online too, so it's rare I'd wander into a computer shop and just pick up a piece of hardware without checking reviews + compatibility online. Guess quite a few people are the same, so for me, placing a sticker saying they're Linux compatible probably wouldn't hit me until it arrived on my doorstep!
 
Old 07-12-2005, 03:18 PM   #3
Charred
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Looking at the box my wifi card came in, one will observe a graphic, bearing the "Windows" logo and the legend "Designed for Microsoft Windows XP/Windows 2000" prominantly placed upon the face. It would be most gratifying to see a similar graphic, similarly prominant, displaying Tux, the kernel version, and the legend "Linux Compatible" over a listing of distros upon which the device was tested, or, better still, miniatures of appropriate distros' logos.

Perhaps, as Linux gains additional marketshare, more hardware manufacturers will see the value in advertising to the Linux users!
 
Old 07-12-2005, 04:15 PM   #4
fouldsy
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Charred, you gonna sit and test each of item hardware a hard manufacturer makes on a dozen or more core distros with multiple kernel versions, etc. That would me a be nice job, playing with Linux all day and getting paid for it. Writing all the docs would be a pain though! Maybe we could tout our services to nVidia, Netgear, etc. and get freebies!!!
 
Old 07-12-2005, 09:41 PM   #5
fieldyweb
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A penguin logo on the box, maybe even state, that the drivers are available online, Ok, with the many distros there are its not possible to support them all, but thats where marketing of your distro takes place. SuSe, Fedora, Mandrake prominent distros, just because you create a distro in linux, if you don't push it and market it, your gonna get problems....

Which leads to the fundamental problem with linux, if you can't produce a "linux" driver which works on all distros, then you have a very basic problem.... One which turns most people off.. ./configure, make, make install... I don't think so. So its time for the linux community to settle on, or create a software installation system which works... for all distros. The setup.exe of linux if you like... an example is yum, goes out and finds the dependencies, and installs them as well...

I understand each version of linux has its own nuances, and reasons for being, i guess the question is, where does it want to be as an operating system, to take the next step to the desktop, may require some compatibility issues... if thats "where you want to go."

Anyway, who or whom would actually take the responsiblity for pushing such an idea as a penguin logo? who is the governing body of Linux?
 
Old 07-13-2005, 12:06 AM   #6
Charred
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Quote:
Originally posted by fouldsy
Charred, you gonna sit and test each of item hardware a hard manufacturer makes on a dozen or more core distros with multiple kernel versions, etc. That would me a be nice job, playing with Linux all day and getting paid for it. Writing all the docs would be a pain though! Maybe we could tout our services to nVidia, Netgear, etc. and get freebies!!!
I have experience with technical writing, and I fear it not! I say bring it on! I would LOVE to get paid to play with Linux all day long! Unfortunately, that's the sort of job that's likely to be outsourced to China.
Quote:
Originally posted by fieldyweb
A penguin logo on the box, maybe even state, that the drivers are available online, Ok, with the many distros there are its not possible to support them all, but thats where marketing of your distro takes place. SuSe, Fedora, Mandrake prominent distros, just because you create a distro in linux, if you don't push it and market it, your gonna get problems....
Attempting to be compatible with EVERY distro would be a fool's errand, but the devices should be checked with the core distros at least, and drivers provided in the appropriate format (tgz, rpm, etc.) as well as the source to fill in the gaps.
Quote:
Which leads to the fundamental problem with linux, if you can't produce a "linux" driver which works on all distros, then you have a very basic problem.... One which turns most people off.. ./configure, make, make install... I don't think so. So its time for the linux community to settle on, or create a software installation system which works... for all distros. The setup.exe of linux if you like... an example is yum, goes out and finds the dependencies, and installs them as well...

I understand each version of linux has its own nuances, and reasons for being, i guess the question is, where does it want to be as an operating system, to take the next step to the desktop, may require some compatibility issues... if thats "where you want to go."
People who try to be everything to everybody end up being nothing to nobody, as the saying goes, and attempting to standardize the Linux community would eventually take us back to Smac or Windoze. To my understanding, Linux is scaring the pants off of Micro$lut with its present course of action (or inaction, depending on how one looks at it), and any alterations to the present scheme should be made with EXTREME caution, if at all. I don't think that most Linux users (USERS, not NEWBIES) are intimidated by compiling their own drivers, I believe that doing such is part of the wonderful experience that is Linux. However, for those who are intimidated by having to configure, make and install their own drivers, the simple solution is to stick a front end on it to hide all the scary stuff from them.

Quote:
Anyway, who or whom would actually take the responsiblity for pushing such an idea as a penguin logo? who is the governing body of Linux?
I expect that, in time, the hardware manufacturers themselves will see the writing on the wall and realize that within the Linux community lies a massive, (mostly) untapped market that they have been overlooking for years, and will move to market to us without any pressure on our part. Why does there need to be a governing body? Haven't we done well without one thus far?

Last edited by Charred; 07-13-2005 at 03:30 AM.
 
Old 07-13-2005, 01:51 AM   #7
fieldyweb
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The governing body quote was a question, rather than a request....

And i couldn't agree more, there is nothing better, than running compile, to find you need 3 other files, not being able to download them off the net because the provincial russian ip address only FTP server has had too many anonymous hits this week, and then having done so finding you require more files... Absolutly mind bendingly fun... I'm in that space between NEWBIE and USER and can get most things working, however it fustrates me sometimes when things don't work... however i'm IT savy enough to document my findings on my webserver... so i don't have to trawl the net for them again.

Microsoft Nervous about linux... ok, we shall see, the old adage keep your friends close and your enemies closer springs to mind.... Personally when someone like Microsoft starts talking up linux, i'd worry more about linux's future.

I do agree the best thing about linux is its diversity, and the fact that people can currently configure it to thier needs at a low level, and yes, its great to see it appearing evrywhere from my grandfathers pc, to ATM machines... Via Mobile phone software....

I wonder if there is any financial payback for having the "designed for...." or "Works with..." Windows logos on your product, or if its just a marketing thing?


And remember this, every USER was a NEWBIE once...
 
Old 07-13-2005, 03:26 AM   #8
Charred
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Quote:
Originally posted by fieldyweb
The governing body quote was a question, rather than a request....
And my answer is that I don't believe one is needed!
Quote:
... I'm in that space between NEWBIE and USER and can get most things working, however it fustrates me sometimes when things don't work...
I, too, am well acquainted with the Linux learning curve (I've only been using Linux since March), and sometimes I hit it harder than others (earlier this week, I hit it so hard it PHYSICALLY HURT!). I currently dual-boot because things do not work on my computer, most specifically the Epson MFD (printer/scanner/copier) my wife just HAD to have, my (non-wireless)NIC, my MMC...etc. These things don't work because I can't get the new version of SANE to recognize the scanner, I have to get the new version of CUPS, and the other two have configuration issues I just haven't taken the time to figure out how resolve yet. I feel your pain! I just take it one device at a time.
XP has frustrated me more than Linux ever could, because if it doesn't work in Linux, it's MY fault, whereas with XP...well, a good example happened yesterday: I was using my wife's computer and foolishly attempted to write to a CD-R that had already been closed. XP took the resulting error message as a sign that write privileges to that drive were to be immediately suspended, and refused to even access the blank CD I subsequently inserted, which scared the hell out of my wife! Ok, so I fixed it in less than a minute, but that doesn't change the fact that my wife now refuses to burn anything to CD for fear her CD drive will stop working again!
Quote:
Microsoft Nervous about linux... ok, we shall see, the old adage keep your friends close and your enemies closer springs to mind.... Personally when someone like Microsoft starts talking up linux, i'd worry more about linux's future.
Linux has become too big even for Bill Gates to do serious damage to. The more M$ attacks Linux, the more people will be curious about what Linux is and investigate it, and therefore, the more people will become converted! For M$, it's an null-sum equation!
Quote:
I wonder if there is any financial payback for having the "designed for...." or "Works with..." Windows logos on your product, or if its just a marketing thing?
Now THAT is a very interesting question! There is the possibility of a kickback from M$ for pasting their logo on your product, but I think it's more likely to be a marketing gimmick designed to give comfort to the clueless M$ user looking for a hardware upgrade, worried they won't be able to use this nice, $100 wifi nic with their new computer so maybe they'd better buy the competitor's $50 wifi nic; it doesn't have the go-faster stripes, but it does say it works with WinXP right on the box! It's just "a bit of 'cology...you know, PSY-cology!" (from Disney's "Dumbo")
 
Old 07-13-2005, 06:59 PM   #9
Diademed
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MINE!


Last edited by Diademed; 07-13-2005 at 07:00 PM.
 
Old 07-13-2005, 10:50 PM   #10
fieldyweb
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Installing software

I have just read an interesting article

http://programming.newsforge.com/pro....shtml?tid=140

Which i think refers to this thread...

Now with a gui that installs source code, does all the ./configure make, install etc, and feeds back real language information, it would make installing drivers possibly easier, and the developers could put on .gz package in the box, with this installer? and hey presto all are happy..

http://www.gnu.org/software/sourcein...ceinstall.html



i'm going to try this out...

After i have reinstalled fedora, as Apt-get/yum have caused probs with dependencies cross linked etc on my system.. Hey i'm still learning, and have a super fast internet pipe at work, so am happy to reinstall at the moment..
 
Old 07-14-2005, 11:28 AM   #11
Charred
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diademed
...MINE!...
That is a very nice graphic! Someday I will sit down and figure out how to animate gifs too...unfortunately not any time soon.
Quote:
Originally posted by fieldyweb
I have just read an interesting article

http://programming.newsforge.com/pr...6.shtml?tid=140

Which i think refers to this thread...
I am pleased you came across this article, I had no idea the GNU Source Installer existed, although, to be fair, I also hadn't even begun to consider the matter until you brought it up the other day. You sound very pleased as well, I hope the Installer is everything you want and more!
 
  


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