LinuxQuestions.org
Share your knowledge at the LQ Wiki.
Home Forums Tutorials Articles Register
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - General
User Name
Password
Linux - General This Linux forum is for general Linux questions and discussion.
If it is Linux Related and doesn't seem to fit in any other forum then this is the place.

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 12-01-2008, 10:43 PM   #1
st0ked56
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Dec 2008
Posts: 2

Rep: Reputation: 0
Linux and NTFS


Can anyone explain to me what Linux doesn't use NTFS be default?
 
Old 12-01-2008, 10:46 PM   #2
billymayday
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Distribution: Fedora, CentOS, OpenSuse, Slack, Gentoo, Debian, Arch, PCBSD
Posts: 6,678

Rep: Reputation: 122Reputation: 122
Apart from it being a crap filesystem? Or do you mean why isn't full support added by default? Probably because lots of people don't want/need it, and having the drivers in userspace speeds up development considerably.
 
Old 12-01-2008, 10:49 PM   #3
billymayday
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Distribution: Fedora, CentOS, OpenSuse, Slack, Gentoo, Debian, Arch, PCBSD
Posts: 6,678

Rep: Reputation: 122Reputation: 122
You may find this thread interesting http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...-thing-685032/
 
Old 12-01-2008, 10:49 PM   #4
st0ked56
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Dec 2008
Posts: 2

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
it was a question for a homework assignment and I was curious just why doesn't linux use NTFS besides the fact that it is a crap filesystem.
 
Old 12-01-2008, 10:54 PM   #5
billymayday
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Distribution: Fedora, CentOS, OpenSuse, Slack, Gentoo, Debian, Arch, PCBSD
Posts: 6,678

Rep: Reputation: 122Reputation: 122
Being crap is a pretty good reason

I would assume Microsoft have it patented/copyrighted/whatever you do for file systems

NTFS came out in the early 90's, so Linux was already underway.

NTFS doesn't support any of the unix style permissions that Linux uses.

It fragments badly.

I'm sure others will add more.
 
Old 12-02-2008, 04:57 AM   #6
jschiwal
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Fargo, ND
Distribution: SuSE AMD64
Posts: 15,733

Rep: Reputation: 682Reputation: 682Reputation: 682Reputation: 682Reputation: 682Reputation: 682
You should learn about the filesystems that Linux uses. Besides the basic ownership & permissions, they also support extended attributes such as immutable , ACLs, quotas and security features that selinux and others use.

Why would a foreign filesystem be used by default? It is like asking, why French people don't speak Japanese all the time.
 
Old 12-02-2008, 02:41 PM   #7
ErV
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Russia
Distribution: Slackware 12.2
Posts: 1,202
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by billymayday View Post
Apart from it being a crap filesystem?
It isn't "crap filesystem". The problem is that current implementation of ntfs on linux doesn't support all features that available, say, in ext3. There is no device nodes on NTFS, access unix rights aren't implemented on NTFS (and won't be, I think), linux users/groups aren't supported, not all features of ntfs are accessible on linux, etc.
 
Old 12-02-2008, 02:59 PM   #8
billymayday
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Distribution: Fedora, CentOS, OpenSuse, Slack, Gentoo, Debian, Arch, PCBSD
Posts: 6,678

Rep: Reputation: 122Reputation: 122
In my space, anything that forces me to defragment qualifies that as crap I'm afraid. Matter of viewpoint.
 
Old 12-02-2008, 04:33 PM   #9
jiml8
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,171

Rep: Reputation: 116Reputation: 116
NTFS is a very robust and reasonably fast filesystem. The need to defrag is a significant downside, but beyond that NTFS is a very solid filesystem.

It also is Microsoft Proprietary, and was only made available in Linux at all after a substantial reverse-engineering effort by Linux developers.
 
Old 12-02-2008, 05:39 PM   #10
ErV
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Russia
Distribution: Slackware 12.2
Posts: 1,202
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by billymayday View Post
In my space, anything that forces me to defragment qualifies that as crap I'm afraid. Matter of viewpoint.
To my experience, NTFS is very difficult to kill, and it doesn't require disk test in case of power failure or after 30 mounts. As for defragmenting it - it doesn't force you to do it.
 
Old 12-03-2008, 12:39 AM   #11
jiml8
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,171

Rep: Reputation: 116Reputation: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErV View Post
it doesn't require disk test in case of power failure or after 30 mounts.
This is actually a weakness. Any filesystem can become corrupted, and Linux runs a check of the filesystem every 30 mounts just to make sure that it isn't corrupted, or if it is, the corruption is caught and fixed before it propagates and causes crashes or data loss.

Windows doesn't do this, presumably because it takes time and Microsoft is not interested in educating users. The consequence is that probably the majority of NTFS filesystems out there ARE corrupted and DO cause intermittent and spurious problems.

Windows only runs chkdsk when Windows itself cannot start. The wise and experienced user runs chkdsk periodically anyway.

Here, in detail, is what I have to say about it:
http://www.softwareforlandlords.com/compMaint2.php
 
Old 12-03-2008, 12:45 AM   #12
SqdnGuns
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Pensacola, FL
Distribution: Slackware64® Current & Arch
Posts: 1,092

Rep: Reputation: 174Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by st0ked56 View Post
it was a question for a homework assignment and I was curious just why doesn't linux use NTFS besides the fact that it is a crap filesystem.
Homework....
 
Old 12-03-2008, 11:48 AM   #13
lumak
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Phoenix
Distribution: Arch
Posts: 799
Blog Entries: 32

Rep: Reputation: 111Reputation: 111
Why ask homework questions here anyway... Isn't the point in answering a question to learn things that may not be discovered otherwise?

Sometimes it's not simply a matter of answering the question correctly but what you learned about the subject trying to answer it.

NTFS - New Technology File System - developed by microsoft. Designed for Window's needs not Unix. Windows is not Posix based as such, the file permissions are completely different. For Linux (or any operating system for that matter) to be some what secure, it needs file permissions. The way linux file systems stores this information is completely different that windows.

I would start your search there.

there are likely better answers and if you really want to know the teacher's socks off, you would have tons to say about file systems in general including journals and reliability checks.
 
Old 12-03-2008, 11:50 AM   #14
SqdnGuns
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Pensacola, FL
Distribution: Slackware64® Current & Arch
Posts: 1,092

Rep: Reputation: 174Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumak View Post
Why ask homework questions here anyway... Isn't the point in answering a question to learn things that may not be discovered otherwise?

Sometimes it's not simply a matter of answering the question correctly but what you learned about the subject trying to answer it.

NTFS - New Technology File System - developed by microsoft. Designed for Window's needs not Unix. Windows is not Posix based as such, the file permissions are completely different. For Linux (or any operating system for that matter) to be some what secure, it needs file permissions. The way linux file systems stores this information is completely different that windows.

I would start your search there.

there are likely better answers and if you really want to know the teacher's socks off, you would have tons to say about file systems in general including journals and reliability checks.
Kinda like making a cheat sheet for an exam. I found out that all the time I spent making one, I never needed it for the actual exam.
 
  


Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LXer: How To Enable NTFS Write Support (ntfs-3g) On Ubuntu Feisty Fawn LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 09-11-2007 08:20 PM
LXer: How To Enable NTFS Write Support (ntfs-3g) On Mandriva 2007 Spring LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 09-05-2007 05:30 PM
NTFS Configuration Tool Can Not Detect SATA drive in NTFS format jlconferido Linux - Newbie 7 06-30-2007 07:07 PM
Copying from NTFS within Linux to another NTFS drive? sandeepg Linux - General 4 01-21-2006 12:43 AM
Captive NTFS -- full r/w ntfs access for Linux spurious Linux - Software 6 01-09-2004 12:29 AM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:16 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration