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Old 02-14-2014, 10:30 PM   #61
Randicus Draco Albus
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Now that the thread has moved irrevocably off-topic, let's steer it even further off-topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vl23 View Post
I think you are overstepping your authority.
How can Jeremy overstep his "authority" when LQ is his board? I am neither condemning nor supporting him, but since the board is his, he may do whatever he wants to do. If members like his decisions they will stay. If they do not like his decisions they will leave.
 
Old 02-14-2014, 11:18 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by widget View Post
It could also be said that upstart may have gotten a lot more support if people voting were not aware of that problem with Canonical also.

Marky can talk of the importance of "community" all he wants but many of us know that the "community" he refers to is the one that agrees, unconditionally, with him.

This is really too bad but it is a fact.

Another fact is that a lot of what the kernel is doing is way out ahead of what the support structures, many that are very long in the tooth, are doing.

I am going to wait and see what happens.

There is BSD if it all goes south.
I agree with you.
 
Old 02-14-2014, 11:19 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
Now that the thread has moved irrevocably off-topic, let's steer it even further off-topic.

How can Jeremy overstep his "authority" when LQ is his board? I am neither condemning nor supporting him, but since the board is his, he may do whatever he wants to do. If members like his decisions they will stay. If they do not like his decisions they will leave.
Or they will bite the bullet and shut up just so they can keep on using such a valuable source of information.
 
Old 02-14-2014, 11:20 PM   #64
ReaperX7
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There has been no pro-systemd sponsoring by anyone at LQ, admins included. The only admin talk has been purely from a technical point of view, nothing less.

Jeremy and LQ isn't like the ArchLinux's forum where anyone decanting against systemd was banned with prejudice. LQ is far more civilized and Jeremy isn't as petty as the leaders of Arch. He's been more than fair, and even though I've butted heads with Tobi I still respect him. You should be respectful towards the admins as well even if you do butt heads with them. They're no better or worse a human being than me, you, or the guy who just signed up 5 minutes ago.

I'm no admin and have no authority, nor would I want it, but seriously... Know your place.

Now back on topic... There's an up and coming Illumos based distrubution called OmniOS. Perhaps you should check it out. Looks promising.

http://omnios.omniti.com/

Last edited by ReaperX7; 02-14-2014 at 11:27 PM.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 03:56 AM   #65
widget
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
There has been no pro-systemd sponsoring by anyone at LQ, admins included. The only admin talk has been purely from a technical point of view, nothing less.

Jeremy and LQ isn't like the ArchLinux's forum where anyone decanting against systemd was banned with prejudice. LQ is far more civilized and Jeremy isn't as petty as the leaders of Arch. He's been more than fair, and even though I've butted heads with Tobi I still respect him. You should be respectful towards the admins as well even if you do butt heads with them. They're no better or worse a human being than me, you, or the guy who just signed up 5 minutes ago.

I'm no admin and have no authority, nor would I want it, but seriously... Know your place.

Now back on topic... There's an up and coming Illumos based distrubution called OmniOS. Perhaps you should check it out. Looks promising.

http://omnios.omniti.com/
Thanks for the link. Will check it and Illumos out. Does sound interesting. And I have drives with space on them.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 01:07 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
There's an up and coming Illumos based distrubution called OmniOS. Perhaps you should check it out. Looks promising.

http://omnios.omniti.com/
That distro brings some memories, not necessarily all good ones though, I remember first trying OpenIndiana when Oracle decided to throw the Open Solaris initiative under the bus.
I've also had the dubious pleasure of administering Solaris Systems and dealing with the SMF personally, it is one of the reasons I despise systemd so much
Although even the SMF is preferable to systemd.

I was wondering, has anyone ever tried MINIX as a desktop, IIRC they decided to use NetBSD's userland but I doubt they have anything near decent hardware support.

Also has anyone tried Darwin and of its derivatives other than OS X?
 
Old 02-15-2014, 03:47 PM   #67
ReaperX7
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I've never, personally, seen any usable ISOs of DarwinOS and other alternative systems in a working distribution.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 05:05 PM   #68
vl23
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Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
I've never, personally, seen any usable ISOs of DarwinOS and other alternative systems in a working distribution.
Apparently you have to do it yourself:
http://darwinbuild.macosforge.org/trac/wiki/Install
http://sourceforge.net/projects/darwinsource/

But it also looks the purveyors of overpriced shiny children's toys have removed a number of important drivers and that might make things a lot harder, at least from what I read after a quick google search.

On a related note, has anyone actually tried Net and DragonFlyBSD, Open and Freebsd got mentioned several times, but nothing about the other half of the BSD family.
Apparently DragonFly has ported the FreeBSD GPU drivers fro AMD from FreeBSD, and HAMMER and their microkernel look interesting.

Any thoughts?


Also on a related note: Installed Gentoo on a KVM virtual guest, I built my kernel and modules the old-fashioned way, 11 seconds from the grub menu to a fully functional multi-user system with all the essential daemons running and dhcp networking fully configured, OpeRC is sheer pleasure to work with.
Also portage and emerge are wonderful, I haven't tweaked for optimization much, but all in all Gentoo is fun, interesting, fast, responsive and a hell of a lot easier than I thought.

I will probably tweak things a bit more, emerge a few more packages and do several more installs until I am completely satisfied, but hopefully I will be ready to fully migrate everything by the end of the week.

Last edited by vl23; 02-15-2014 at 05:37 PM.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 06:33 PM   #69
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FreeBSD 10 supports installing ZFS-On-Root so pretty much FreeBSD right now has the ultimate file system, and it's fairly good now with driver support. Solaris and Illumos both use this file system also. Best there is and nothing beats it.

The closest you can get to FreeBSD with a Linux distribution is Gentoo with /(root) installed on BtrFS or JFS with an EXT4 /boot partition.

Of course you could always attempt to use ZFSOnLinux with a host install and then build LFS with ZFS support. It's non-redistributable, but it's reliable.

Last edited by ReaperX7; 02-15-2014 at 06:34 PM.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 07:19 PM   #70
vl23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
FreeBSD 10 supports installing ZFS-On-Root so pretty much FreeBSD right now has the ultimate file system, and it's fairly good now with driver support. Solaris and Illumos both use this file system also. Best there is and nothing beats it.

The closest you can get to FreeBSD with a Linux distribution is Gentoo with /(root) installed on BtrFS or JFS with an EXT4 /boot partition.

Of course you could always attempt to use ZFSOnLinux with a host install and then build LFS with ZFS support. It's non-redistributable, but it's reliable.
I saw one or two HAMMER benchmarks and it looked like it could definitely be superior to ZFS, as to ZFS on linux, I haven't really tried it.
IMO btrfs is being pushed more heavily in the linux department by the likes of SuSE, and the few times had to deal with ZFS on SPARC systems running Solaris I did not leave with a very good impressions.
Now granted, that was years ago, and ZFS might have improved since then.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 07:23 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vl23 View Post
I saw one or two HAMMER benchmarks and it looked like it could definitely be superior to ZFS, as to ZFS on linux, I haven't really tried it.
IMO btrfs is being pushed more heavily in the linux department by the likes of SuSE, and the few times had to deal with ZFS on SPARC systems running Solaris I did not leave with a very good impressions.
Now granted, that was years ago, and ZFS might have improved since then.
http://rudd-o.com/linux-and-free-sof...ter-than-btrfs
 
Old 02-16-2014, 12:32 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
FreeBSD 10 supports installing ZFS-On-Root so pretty much FreeBSD right now has the ultimate file system, and it's fairly good now with driver support.
On BSD you can still have a separate /usr partition, while on Linux it is now basically unsupported and will also stop working on Debian soon. I'm quite sure, an apt-get dist-upgrade will break an existing installation and make it unbootable...

Did the a.out->ELF or libc5->libc6 transition require a complete reinstall?
 
Old 02-16-2014, 05:11 AM   #73
vl23
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Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
On BSD you can still have a separate /usr partition, while on Linux it is now basically unsupported and will also stop working on Debian soon. I'm quite sure, an apt-get dist-upgrade will break an existing installation and make it unbootable...

Did the a.out->ELF or libc5->libc6 transition require a complete reinstall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eselect news
localhost ~ # eselect news read 6
2013-09-27-initramfs-required
Title Separate /usr on Linux requires initramfs
Author William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org>
Posted 2013-09-27
Revision 1

Linux systems which have / and /usr on separate file systems but do not
use an initramfs will not be supported starting on 01-Nov-2013.

If you have / and /usr on separate file systems and you are not
currently using an initramfs, you must set one up before this date.
Otherwise, at some point on or after this date, upgrading packages
will make your system unbootable.

For more information on setting up an initramfs, see this URL:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Initramfs/HOWTO

Due to many upstream changes, properly supporting Linux systems that
have /usr missing at boot time has become increasingly difficult.
Despite all our efforts, it already breaks in some exotic
configurations, and this trend is likely to grow worse.

For more information on the upstream changes and why using an initramfs
is the cleanest route forward, see the following URLs:

http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software...-usr-is-broken
https://blog.flameeyes.eu/2013/01/the-boot-process
That second link is particularly interesting I found, with the grand pooh-bah of systemd making an appearance and blaming everybody else for his brainchild's failings, as usual.

Last edited by vl23; 02-16-2014 at 05:12 AM.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 09:15 AM   #74
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
On BSD you can still have a separate /usr partition, while on Linux it is now basically unsupported and will also stop working on Debian soon. I'm quite sure, an apt-get dist-upgrade will break an existing installation and make it unbootable...
Not at all,
it's (already) done using initramfs (nothing DPKG/DKMS can't handle).

Last edited by jens; 02-16-2014 at 09:37 AM.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 09:47 AM   #75
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
F
The closest you can get to FreeBSD with a Linux distribution is Gentoo with /(root) installed on BtrFS or JFS with an EXT4 /boot partition.

Of course you could always attempt to use ZFSOnLinux with a host install and then build LFS with ZFS support. It's non-redistributable, but it's reliable.
No.
"ZFS on root" exists with Linux as well:
https://github.com/zfsonlinux/pkg-zf...oot-Filesystem
http://www.andybotting.com/zfs-on-linux

Last edited by jens; 02-16-2014 at 10:08 AM.
 
  


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