Gnome to overtake KDE?

jmr71769 · 11-07-2005, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pritchardtom
Maybe Gnome will take over the world?
Maybe Microsoft will one day implement a Gnome-like DE and then no-one would use it :-)

Command line all the way I say. There is nothing like the black on white terminal style to make you happy :-)

CLI! w00t!

pritchardtom · 11-07-2005, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmr71769
CLI! w00t!

Glad to see you're so happy about the command line :-)

jmr71769 · 11-07-2005, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pritchardtom
Glad to see you're so happy about the command line :-)

That's where 99% of the action takes place, no? And with framebuffer enabled, oh it's so purdy!

pritchardtom · 11-07-2005, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmr71769
That's where 99% of the action takes place, no? And with framebuffer enabled, oh it's so purdy!

I do agree it is very pretty :-). That is why I like Slackware so much, just starts up in command prompt, if you need X you just tell it to start, otherwise you can just get on with the buisness.

Mind you I think you can make all Linux Distros start up in prompt if you really want, but I am not too sure.

jmr71769 · 11-07-2005, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pritchardtom
I do agree it is very pretty :-). That is why I like Slackware so much, just starts up in command prompt, if you need X you just tell it to start, otherwise you can just get on with the buisness.

Mind you I think you can make all Linux Distros start up in prompt if you really want, but I am not too sure.

X is optional. All good GNU/Linux Zen comes from CLI. :-)

acid_kewpie · 11-07-2005, 10:02 AM

cheers... can we get back on track now?

jmr71769 · 11-07-2005, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by acid_kewpie
cheers... can we get back on track now?

Sure. We were talking about Gnome vs. KDE, which of course, is a long fought and pretty much dead argument. While Novell's work to bastardize the Gnome desktop is quite awe inspiring, I wouldn't assume for a moment that just because they're going to push it in the market, that it's going to make a damn difference what you use at home. Both desktops have so many wonderful goodies it would be near impossible to slap into this post. And, since they inter-operate with each other, why make a bloody battle out of a friendly rivalry? Aren't there better things in life to waste time on?

Vi! No, Emacs! Know what I mean?

acid_kewpie · 11-07-2005, 10:49 AM

so you didnt' read anything in the previous posts then? no it's not gnome vs kde in the slightest.

XavierP · 11-07-2005, 12:36 PM

Quote:

From Aaron Krill on Planet KDE
Novell is "standardizing" on Gnome as their desktop environment. Anyone want to know why? Because the gnome guys know how to make a good simple end-user application.
Lets face it. Almost all KDE apps have interfaces that provide easy access to even the most advanced functions. That my friends, is the problem. The immense choice of features and actions things like toolbars, as well as non-descript icons, are turning newbies away from KDE.

Lets take Konqueror for example, probably the one thing a linux newbie would use most. Right now, with SuSE 10.0 defaults, I have 12 buttons on my toolbar... These are what they do:
*Back
*Forward
*Up
*Home
*Refresh
*Stop
*Print
*Find
*Zoom In
*Zoom Out
*Security
*Download Manager

This is in Web Browsing mode. I don't need or want the Up button, or the Zoom buttons. The find button is non-descript and requires me to hover over the icon and wait for the tooltip. The security button is pointless since we can just put a lock icon on the status bar like most sane people (perhaps with a fancy KDE tooltip describing the security in use). The Download Manager button is also completely useless, especially since I don't even have KGet integrated with konqueror.

Secondly, we don't need the address bar to say "location." Most people already know its for addresses, so that just makes it look clunky. The Go button could use some work too.
This kind of stuff shows up in tons of KDE apps. Things have been getting better... especially in the KDE-PIM apps, But KOffice, Konqueror, Kopete, all have too much UI clutter and icons that just don't make sense where they are. Do we really need copy/paste icons everywhere? Do we need an icons for every functionality on the planet? It overwhelms the newbie user. Hell, it overwhelms me at times. I just get confused and probably end up not seeing all the great capabilities of these apps.

Novell, Redhat, and other "commercial" distributions are targetting their desktop distributions at businesses whose users have probably never seen or used Linux. They're also targetting their server distributions as replacements for Windows servers, and want to make it as easy as possible for Windows admins to move over to Linux. Gnome, I hate to say, excels at this due to the simplicity of their applications. They may not have the features or customizability of KDE apps, but they do have the UI right... simple and to the point.

If we can manage to get the UI's of our applications to a point where the new user isn't overwhelmed, but advanced users can still access the most advanced features we add, then we will be #1. Until then, to commercial distros we will always be the loser.

I'm pretty sure thats where we're headed with KDE 4... but I do agree with what Daniel said here about porting the 3.5 codebase to QT4, making it solid, then adding features and changing things. This is actually what we're doing. But, he also stated that we need to get things out in a timely manner so that kde-loving distros have "something to sell." Well, thats why we're getting artists and UI designers together to talk while we are still porting the codebase. If we wait until the codebase is finished to start on UI design and "eye-candy", then those people have nothing to do while we port. Thats a waste, and slows us down. So don't think that because we have kde-artists.org discussing UI changes that we are ignoring stability and not focusing solely on porting. Those who are responsible for porting are just porting, if I'm not mistaken. Its those of us who don't do code that are contributing to the UI stuff.

The KDE developers are aware of the differences and the potential impact of these differences and are working on them. I would expect that, unless Gnome starts to overtake KDE very quickly, the question will become moot.

Cogar · 11-07-2005, 12:42 PM

Novell has problems, strategically speaking, and their failures with Word Perfect, Quattro Pro, etc., the decline of NetWare, and their steadily dwindling market share proves it. It is possible that their making this choice is a good argument against GNOME. Still, based on the varied reports, I don't think anyone at Novell knows where they are truly going. (I am sure most of us have read conflicting reports regarding who Novell is going to lay off, etc.) Who knows? We may get the opposite news in 6 months. The bottom line (to me, at least) is this: Novell will not determine which will overtake the other. I will just be happy that SUSE survives (which it should), and worry about the details later.

jmr71769 · 11-07-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by acid_kewpie
so you didnt' read anything in the previous posts then? no it's not gnome vs kde in the slightest.

And I quote, the title of the original post --> Gnome to overtake KDE?

Call me nuts, and I had to edit my original post because It made me out to be a dick, but, what part of your original post ISN'T about Gnome vs. KDE? Let me guess, just because it has the word 'Novell' in it?

Come on man...

acid_kewpie · 11-07-2005, 02:29 PM

I hardly think it's fair to basically say everything Novell touches turns to mush

essentially i'd say they are just copying RHEL, but that's possibly a little short sighted.

I think that KDE guy is thinking what i'm thinking in general. It's a great great position to be in where you can take a step back and be very objective about your own work in comparison to others. Generally QT looks very very nice, very slick indeed, but just not professional, which is a very different thing. A Gnome app looks simple when it doesn't do much, a KDE app looks like a bit of beta junk! I'm not sure i agree with what he's saying as far as Konqueror goes.. i never use it but i open up Gnomes browser, who's name escapes me now, and compared to Firefox it looks to plain because i know I want to do extra things with it...

Naturally both RHEL and SLES will include KDE, but that counts for precious little when it's 2nd in a list of two, and it doesn't look like the screenshots (i.e. the official way, the way that companies like, the way they can sue over if it goes wrong!).

XavierP · 11-07-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by acid_kewpie
I never use it but i open up Gnomes browser, who's name escapes me now,

Nautilus

SlackerLX · 11-07-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by acid_kewpie
I hardly think it's fair to basically say everything Novell touches turns to mush essentially i'd say they are just copying RHEL, but that's possibly a little short sighted.

Not only Novell, but also Sun Solaris prefers Gnome

RMSe17 · 11-07-2005, 02:58 PM

One word: Enlightenment

I have always liked KDE because of it's options, and to me gnome looks ugly (not sure why, I am not a person for fancy looks, I prefer MacOS9 icons to those of OSX, and I prefer Win2000 look over the WinXP, and in KDE I generally pick Win98 base scheme for modification)... but enlightment 17 will own everything. It's just too good.