My friend(s) and I are embarking on a journey to elicit the cause of social work and hopefully help the cause of Free Software.

We have made arrangements with a hospital, who will provide us with old computers (166 mhz range) with blank hard drives. Instead of there throwing them away, we want to fix these computers and we will most likely end up installing a GNU/Linux system on them to give them to needy people who don't have a computer.

We intend to make it simple: provide a simple, toned-down graphical interface with links to the main applications: Office (open office), internet (mozilla/firefox), e-mail (evolution/thunderbird), music (xmms and a cdplayer).

We understand the problems of giving away computers with Linux to people who may have a phobia of computers. However, because they may not know how to use computers (excuse the condescending tone if any is noted), this may play to our advantage, since they may not "freak out" when they don't see a "start" button or a link called "internet explorer."

We intend to provide those above services on the computer, as simply as possible. We will have links on the desktop to those applications, and label them as "office", "internet", etc.

Now to how LQ can help us. This is truly a situation when things like learning to compile or use the console are not necessary. We need guides as to how to use things like an office suite, or how to surf the web (for research) or how to check mail.

What are the problems we are likely to encounter? We both have families that are unfamiliar with Linux, and I have successfully gotten my father to use Linux regularly, and he is truly the average user.
Are there links to guides for using OpenOffice (in simple terms), especially for things like "saving to .doc". Most of these computers will go to students, but of what age/grade we know not.

Current plans:
Install either Slackware 9.1/10.0 (but will this run well using XFCE on such slow computers?) or Debian (with older software because it may go easier on the hardware). Please no distro wars: I like using the latest software, and feel the slackware can go easy on the systems, especially if using XFCE with very few services running (most of these people won't even have printers).
Configure either XFCE to be extremely simple, or use KDE with the redmond theme.
Setup internet (most likely dialup, hopefully not on winmodem) and perhaps hide the Linux startup sequence.

Yes, this seems shallow, but please, if you have any other suggestions, ideas, or questions, please post them. I am looking for guides on OpenOffice, as there is no need to write tuturials if they already exist.

I will update as the project continues. I encourage other people to take similar measures, and show that what possibilities there are without legal limitations. One thing I intend to avoid is to continue the stereotype that "Linux is poor-man's windows."

Thanks for your time, and I appreciate all help!

Not a Distro War... but Vector Linux was made for old hardware.

I have used Vector on old 166Mhz machines and it was OK.

I've also recompiled some bloated distro's and they too worked well with old hardware, but my time is always limited and recompiling on old hardware is time consuming. Try Vector it is pretty nice for old systems. Peanut 95 worked well on a 266mhz but the new version needs more power.

Gentoo will give you the slimmest kernel, but time and knowledge are necessary.

Good Luck!

Thanks for your input. Vectorlinux is a good idea, and since it is based on slackware, it should be easy for me to incorporate.

The biggest problem we face is software ubiquity for Linux as opposed to Windows. What do we tell people when they say they cannot install Kazaa or Grand Theft Auto (besides that the hardware is old) or anything they download off the internet? What do we say when they find they cannot use shockwave games? These are all relatively minor gripes, but info as to how to appease these situations would be great.

My friend describes user-friendliness as this common install base in Windows. I do not necessarily agree. I do not want to incorporate wine into these computers (unless absolutely necessary). The alternatives available in Linux, especially for those common needs described in my first post, are equal and in many points superior to what is available in Windows.

What are some basic essentials necessary that I may be leaving out? This is a request for discussion and any help anyone can offer.

Once again, if anyone knows of tutorials of how to simply use a computer, that would be great! I realize that such articles will be tailored for Windows, but if anything relevant is found (such as how to browse the internet), please post them here!

Yea, Thats a very good concern. It would take some time, but if I were you, I'd build a little web-site of sorts and throw the folder in /usr/share/doc or something and then symlink or create launchers to the 'index.html' on the Desktop/menu/quicklaunch area... I would write down all those concerns you have listed so far and spend some time thinking of some more.

I would probably go to OOO website and start doing "save page as" on tutorials and whatnot... Incorporate those into your local hard drive/web page..... Put some sort of copywrite thing at the bottom stating that the page was taken from OOO's web site... Make a page on basic Linux commands and any other thing you can think of. I had a hell of a time learning Linux when I first started as did many people so I can still recall how tough it was transitioning....

XFCE is about the only window manager I haven't tried so I can't help you there. A page on how to navigate using it's native file browser would be nice along with the structure of the Linux filesystem vs. Windows... You know... All the basics.

I would consider installing Firefox, Thunderbird, OOO, Flash and Java and trying to set EVERYTHING up so it is ready to go... Most people aren't going to know how to do all that. Associate music and video extensions to the respective players... You know... Do all that little crap that will throw newbies for a loop.

It's a great cause. I have a little free time on my hands. Let me know if you would like some help with the web page idea. I just think that would be WAY better and more familiar to the average person than making a bunch of text files.... The info would be nicely organized with a clear index and a central START page.... Just a thought...

I would also probably switch to an init5 bootup using gdm or whatever if at all possible with a nice general background thats not too flashy. Create a standard user account, enable Framebuffer and a bootsplash/progress bar like you were talking about. I agree, as long as the hardware can handle it, I would want it to make a very nice 'first' impression. Send me the complete specs. I'm getting very interested for some reason.... If they are all the same EXACT specs, I would tweak one computer out to just the way you want it and keep track of EVERYTHING you did. Then make a giant Slak-Pak and burn it to CD... Include all files you modified and all the Firefox/Thunderbird/OOO/Java binaries along with their respective symlinks. Theres pro's and cons to that approach but think it would be good. pkgtool would get a little loused up as far listing individual newly installed progs but then again, those don't come in Slak-Paks anyway, so who cares? Probably wouldn't even use pkgtool to install it maybe. Just extract it into '/'... Maybe... I don't know.....

Just bouncing some stuff off ya'.....

Jon

Major thanks for your input. I definitely agree that I should install java and plugins, and thanks for the input on association. It has been long enough since I've ever really double-clicked on a file in hopes it would pop open the right program

Now that you mention writing tutorials on basic shell commands (or finding some existing ones), it doesn't seem too bad. I originally shunned the idea, because the people receiving the computers (once again, I don't intend to belittle) probably won't care to do things like navigate the file system, not even graphically in windows, let alone do 'cd /usr/src'. But looking down on people like that is wrong, and I apologize for making such stupid decisions. For those that do want to learn, or have the ability to do so, why restrict them from easily-accessible resources?

All those "small things" you mention really will become big things. The purpose of the project is to help, not hinder. If it requires the receiver of the computers more time and effort to do the basic computing tasks, it diminishes the purpose of the project. We want to provide all the services necessary, at the first bootup for the user; so, I agree that we should add a default user, even with the most default of passwords, if any at all.

A problem with starting up to gdm is of course the memory. I don't have the specs yet, but it may be that XDM is the only thing we can use. If I can fit in gdm, it will be done.

I am really glad you've taken such an interest in this project, and when I get the information on the computers, you really can help out.
As for creating a distro out of this project, it is definitely something I have considered . The Linux-library OS (Lumix) has done something similar, and is one of my motivations.

Thanks again!

p.s.: from an e-mail I just sent out to my friend:

"Contemplating on using Linux: my idea, to alleviate some problems such as printing and saving in the correct format, is to setup a dedicated computer to act somewhat as a server for the donated computers. We can setup a single, always-on Linux box at the school, connected to a printer, and then setup the donated computersto print over the internet (I can set this up in cups; not sure about lprng). Also, this dedicated Linux box could also have an NFS server to which the computers will save, so in case they do not save in the correct format, we can just startup openoffice at the school computer and convert it. Yes, it seems difficult, and there are risks for abuse and security, but it is something worth endeavoring. I believe it is practical as well. "

Sure.. Let me know if I can help at all...

some unfortunate, almost dire news:

We have decided to go ahead and keep the OEM's OS - Windows 98. The hopsital donating the computers for this project has stated that the licenses belong and travel with the computer, and don't belong to the hospital.

We have come to the conclusion that this decision will just make the intent of the project work more smoothly. I stated that "social work comes first." My friend states that '[he] has to give these people what they want'.

This pains me for one reason: it is feeding the giant. I do not feel that it is fair for users to be subjected to ancient software, unsupported by any vast group, especially one that is insecure and liable to need more maintainance than installing a straightforward GNU/Linux Distro.

This event has made one thing unbelievable clear to me. I admit that I have been refusing to believe this, and those semi-anit-linux folk probably haven't realized this either, so they better not jump on me for this . Microsoft's Windows is a force to reckon with. It limits possibilities, from all sides, everywhere. For such a project so simple in concept, we are forced into conformity, against our will . Even MS Office and Internet Explorer are fairly easily open for alternatives. Why? Because of cross-platform software like Open Office and Mozilla.

In order to prevent such things from happening in the future, to anybody's endeavors, I have made a promise to learn to program and contribute to the unity of windows-based applications and linux-based application. In order to beat MS (and yes, I do want to see MS defeated), we must first work with it. Had we been able to incorporate .exe into Linux, Windows would not even be considered. I have many things that I will be working on as I enter my Computer Science class, one of which being the Wine project.

Another promise is to keep this effort alive. My friend is essentially in charge of this project, and to be honest, had I been in charge, using Windows would have been a second, if not third option, preceeded by first GNU/Linux and second OpenBSD. I will see if I can get a few of the approximately 50 computers to run a Linux distro, but I feel that the people who receive these computers may feel "targeted" or "discriminated against," when others receive the common Windows 98 computers.

So for me, my personal project is on standby, but as long as I can help people, that is what gives me a sense of satisfaction and joy. I will update this post as I find more computers.

Thanks to those who contributed! Please keep contributing, because I hope to encourage many of you out there to do something similar!

You might want to look into that some more. You CANNOT install those windows 98 disks on ANY OTHER COMPUTER but those, but you are not bound by the computer manufacturer to only run Windows 98 on those boxes..... It's the reverse side of that coin and I think either the hospitial in question doesn't know what they are talking about or they misunderstood you and thought you were going to reuse the windows disks on other computers..... That make ABSOLUTELY no sense at all and I'd be willing to bet I'm on the right track of thinking. Look into it further for your own sake... That just does not sound right at all....

What I'd suggest is to try out one or two linux pilot machines with an open minded worker.
When all the Windows machines become infected with spyware or worms or viruses (all three?).
The Linux box(s) will keep on running.
I had one project where the lone Linux desktop was considered undesirable until netsky hit - it was the only box that was still running perfectly. A month later spyware (keyloggers) were found on all the windows staions, again the Linux station was not affected/infected. The owner then asked me if we could convert more stations, since the Windows down time was killing him alot more than the minor learning curve of KDE/Linux. Now he runs six linux stations, five windows stations and four linux servers.

Hey - I hope this isn't too off topic, but I was just browsing through some search results and saw your post here. I haven't gotten a chance to read all of the messages yet (although I think I saw an unfortunate turn of events that meant you had to use Windows). But regardless of the success of your project at this point I just wanted to say I'm very impressed by this initiative and it sounds like a really good thing to do. I'm still pretty new to Linux - I doubt that I could significantly contribute at this point (I have some programming skillz, especially with C++, but I'm guessing that wouldn't really be too useful), but I just wanted to thank you for putting something like this in motion. It seems to be very characteristic of the really good attitude that I see everywhere in this community; it also seems like a great way to keep things legal, use your abilities for a good cause, take advantage of the versatility of Linux, and not waste resources. OK, that's about it - let me know if there is something I can do, and once again, hats off to you!

Wow, I really appreciate the encouragement. It's great to see that people are seeing the value of this project.

First, to jong357: I am not sure I understand, so I hope you can explain things a little more. The hospital is giving us computers that once had windows 98 on them, but were reformated (and are now blank) to erase patient data. We are going to use Windows 98 because the hospital can give us the cd's that go with those computers for free, since the the copies are not licensed to the hospital. As long as we use the license key(s) provided by the hospital, we can use Windows 98. We are not bound to this, for we can use Windows 2000 or above, but that would cost an excessive amount of money, because we would have to pay for new licenses. The license given to us will either be group licenses (for multiple computers) or individual licenses. In any case, if there are license problems, the hospital will probably just transfer the names to us.

Swiftnet: You definitely are encouraging one point - to leave the decision in the hands of the user. I like the idea of a "pilot" Linux box. What I can do is offer Linux computers, with services I mentioned in a previous post about NFS saves and network printing from their homes to the school. Such things I know I can setup. I am also willing to provide ssh support. With these incentives, I can let the user decide if he wants to stick with Linux, or if he finds it unsuitable, I can always replace it with a Windows 98 pc.

MailleMan: Just because you are new doesn't mean you cannot help. This is a social project in which anyone can contribute. Programming may indeed be needed, so standby . In fact, you can help us by listing things you would like to see done by default at first startup in Linux.

I'll post more information as it becomes available.

Thanks!

Oh... O.k.. I guess I misunderstood then.... So why do you have to stick with Windows 98 only then? If you went with Linux you would have 50 drink coasters to pass out to all your friends.... You would have more stable machines and be saving alot of coffee tables from water damage at the same time.... I guess I still don't understand....

Personally I would set the computers up with LimeWire installed. Ver easy to use graphical package, that all the users should get to grips with, plus its miles better than Kazaa.

Well, we stick with windows 98 because it is something that these people will use more easily. Even if they don't know how to double-click a .exe (why do I keep condescending?!), some of there friends will know how to. We don't want to piss the them off, that's the key. Because face it, most of these people will be literally computer illiterate. Just out of conformity, we save ourselves the trouble of having them come back to us and say "This sucks."
We don't want to upgrade, because then we would have to invest money, a resource not available to us. A tangible thing can have a cost, but something malleable like software shouldn't deprive the ability to manifest things as we would like, as long as we maintain respect to the authors, and this is a fundamental problem with Windows. It doesn't allow the freedom of choice, to software developers, or to us.

The maintainance "costs" (time) will definitely be higher, because of how feeble windows is, whichi is why I like the idea of a pilot Linux box. If there is space on these hard drives, I wish to do a dual-boot on them.

As for Kazaa, that was asked rhetorically . It was meant to show the influence of Windows, even though these applications are intrinsically not causing the problem. It is the massive install base that forces conformity.

Do continue criticizing this decision, maybe we can still change the immediate path! All input is welcome!


*edit: I do not want to install Kazaa by default, since it will most likely be used for illegal/inethical purposes. We don't want to be targeted for advocating this