-This thread is started for people that like linux the way it is and would like to see at least one distribution stay more like it is now, rather than how the general populous would like to see it.

I am constantly running accross posts and articles where people say the problem with linux is that it is not user friendly, or that it lacks support for certain things.

where is the problem?

I do not mean this to be offensive, I to would like to see a user friendly distro, or a few of them even. also I would love more support for programs/games, and more replacememnt programs.

here is my view:

1) many people complain about this and that in linux, how many of them are making an effort to fix the issues upon which they complain? if you do I applaud you. but even this is not much of a problem, not everyone can code and work on this stuff, but I would hope those that can't would be grateful to those that can.

2) The ratio of User freindlyness to Customisability and expandibility is constant, the more you shift to one the less you have int he other. I got hooked on linux because I could change things at the basic levels, and work with anything, and use config files. A gui would limit the options and slow this down, it would also be clunky. I am not apposed to a development of a gui config tool for everything, but I would hate to see all distributions require using it and locking users out of the config files.


In conclusion:

it would be wonderful for more support, but someone has to make it, complaining will do nothing.

it would be nice for user friendlyness, but not everyone needs/wants it.

so I ask, before complaining or arguing that linux isn't mainstream because it lacks this thing or that thing that YOU want, and consider, does everyone else want it? does the majority want it? does anyone want it? To adopt the principles of user friendlyness and support may be to drop the principles that seperate linux from windows to begin with.

I am not asking for flame wars here, I am asking for opinions of people, if you think linux should become more user friendly and gain support say why, and please don't just say because, give reasons and suggestions, if you are unwilling to help the change do not ask for it.

For those who would like to maintain the current system please tell me why, once again don't just say because, if you think it should maintain a certain level of status quoe in how things are done say why, don't simply say you are afraid of change.

I also ask that you only post if you have something worth saying (not that anyone lacks value in what they say ;-)) but please don't just message to say I agree, or quote something and say yes to it, if it is said once by someone do not say the same thing, to many threads fill to more posts than anyone can go through from useless chatter. (if you want a useless chatter thread about this make one, don't complain that I am not doing things u'r way please ;-))

i must say i do agree with you, i use a distro based on core linux (i reinstalled everyhing from source, changed the filesstem it wanted to use, basicly now its just what i want and not much else (the else is dependancies like m4, and other libs and such that are only used by 1 program), i think core linux is a good distro for what you want (altho its a shame the install cd only suport ext FS and not and otherrs, owell thats what live distros are for ),

back on track here, i feel linux should be as it is for this simple reason, linux and all the software for it are just programs that work, some work crappy (needs some work), others work exelent (like linux itself), but no matter what if you dont like some program, you can just make a new one to replace it (i needed a minimal WM that would just do its job and not interfier, the only windows managers like that either cant compile cuse i dont have motif or some other dependancy (ud think people would be concirerate enough to list teh dependancies ), so now i find myself learning the xlib's and c so i can make one to suit my needs), if people only made the software to jsut suit there needs, and let others add on to suit there needs youll find that the program would be very user friendly (depending on what you call user friendly ), and also would make more options to chose from in linux, people that only complain are usualy just wanting some click and go whatever but wont take the time it takes to actualy contribute to any open source project, even a sugestion would be better then complaining to no one, if they want to complain im sure they have enough money to buy windows or a mac, as for everyone else can just go on like its been, contributing and making new projects to help people or solve a problem they have with other progrms

Why not have a distro that has good defaults, but that can be easily changed?

Also, the GUI config tools should all be located in a control panel, similar to windows. This way, people who like a GUI can use one, and have everything central, while people who like to customise everything manually can still do so.

The current method of having all the config in easily located text files is good, except it should be more central, as currently all the config files are all over the place -- eg have all config files in /etc, with user configs in a single ~/.config directory in each users home directory.

Just my 2 cents worth
--Ian

What I often find offensive is that when people say "it isn't user friendly", what they actually mean is "it isn't Windows". Of course it isn't! Windows is not user friendly, if you think it is then it just shows how much you have been indoctrinated into the way Windows works. Since I love my car analogies: If these people were so hung up on things being exactly the same across the board, then how do then not get into a problem when 'upgrading' their cars to a newer model where things are going to be different.

I personally like things the way they are. There are few things that I have found that haven't got nice GUI config tools. Even sorting out what services start and stop at which runlevels has several GUI config tools.

I am glad this is working, this is some good stuff.

Thymox: You are so right, when I first started w/ linux I was upset that it wasn't just like windows, i was also 15. now 5.5 years later I refuse to use windows, I can't function inside such a small box with everyrthing presented to me.

IBall: Good idea, but a bit more choice is needed first, for instance many gui tools once installed dominate and take over, also what of us that do not want to immediatly boot to a gui and see the panel? I am of the mindset that if you want something you need to work for it, or at the very least choose it, an extra feature liek a control panel is just that :extra, it should be installed after the fact when a choice is made, not uninstalled when you don't want it, otherwise it is integrated IE all over again ;-)

SciYro: If only more people would contribute, linux is not for peopel that want a perfect os, it is for people that want to make a perfect os. I was only slightly interested in programming and mainly just played games, then I got into linux and have since started learnign several languages just so I can help impliment a feature here or fix a bug there. This is what makes open source so great.

THe main reason i went with linux is the control. It does what I tell it to do and no more, no less. I am not at all opposed to linux becoming more user friendly so that other may also benefit from the strength and security of the 'OS' of the people. But, I cannot fathom it coming at the price of my ability to have a box setup exactly as i want it to. I do not want to boot to a gui, without being prompted to. I do not want to have to use a gui to configure things. When i want a program, I run it.

The day linux starts telling me i dont want to do something is the day I switch completely over to BSD!

I would love to have a completely inegrated GUI available to me. A gui where everything is controlled via radio butons and dropdown menus. I think all of this would be excellent as an introduction to linux for a newbie. Some may never want to remove these features. Thats OK. Just dont force it on us. Atleast one distribution should remain pure....

Right on target, Thymox.
Occasionally I will post a "Linux and Windows are different" comment.

I find it disturbing that people often post that all Linux versions should not only be the same but must be what they want, disregarding that others may prefer something different.

hmm, the thread hasn't died has it? I am sure there are more than just us.