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Old 11-12-2017, 11:42 AM   #1
2handband
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Does anyone still think the app problem will ever be solved?


I've been a Linux user for over a decade, and a tremendous advocate. I've run a website devoted to helping noobs, and contributed my admittedly minimal coding skills to a few projects. But as of this spring, all of my computers have been running Windows.

Why? Because my software needs are no longer completely vanilla. My girlfriend lives with me now, and sometimes has to bring her work home. Guess what OS none of her work software runs on? Even something as basic as an office package, and don't even start with me on Libreoffice because we all know it's useless to someone using Excel at a power user level. It's not even close to a 1:1 replacement.

For me personally, I'm no longer a pro musician doing all of my work in recording studios. I'm semi-retired and doing my recording at home, and Ardour is a sad joke compared to Pro Tools or even more budget-minded alternatives like Cubase. I use Guitar Pro to create content for students, and the latest (and far superior) version has no Linux port. For my more serious compositional work I've been running Finale on a Windows VM for years and no... Musescore doesn't even come close to where Finale was ten years ago.

So here's my POV after over a decade of fairly dedicated Linux use. We have a very nice platform that is absolutely useless for anyone who needs to do serious work on their computer and THAT is why Linux has basically failed as a desktop platform. We don't have anything remotely comparable to Adobe Creative Suite, MS Office, Autocad, Pro Tools, or any one of 100 other things I can name. And we're not going to, at least not open source solutions. We can't compete with the small armies of paid devs employed by those companies. Linux has the best damn media players in the world, and it used to have the best workflow management tools until projects like Konqueror got stupidly replaced by lesser software. BUT:

The reason we have computers is to run application software. Nobody owns one for any other reason. And if your needs go at all beyond plain vanilla, Linux as a desktop platform becomes instantly useless. The biggest failure of the Linux community, in my mind, has been a failure to create a friendly platform for vendors of proprietary binaries. Maybe instead of one more distro that's only marginally different from half a dozen others, or ANOTHER damn desktop environment when there was nothing wrong with KDE a decade ago, the community as a whole should have been working on a stable, universal API that's easy to write to. Inter-distro binary compatibility might have made all the difference if it had happened fifteen years ago (and maybe if Linus had swallowed his pride and gone for a stable ABI we'd have better hardware support, too).

So my question: do you guys think it's too late, or is this still a solvable problem?
 
Old 11-12-2017, 12:45 PM   #2
pwalden
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Anyone who does serious computer based work knows that you cannot do it on Windows. So there really isn't any problem as you call it to solve.

Power excel users at work are a big problem as they develop unportable application that are very hard to distribute and support. We'd all be better off if they'd learn to use something better.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 12:51 PM   #3
2handband
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwalden View Post
Anyone who does serious computer based work knows that you cannot do it on Windows. So there really isn't any problem as you call it to solve.

Power excel users at work are a big problem as they develop unportable application that are very hard to distribute and support. We'd all be better off if they'd learn to use something better.
You're being deliberately obtuse. Almost ALL serious computer based work is done on Windows or Mac, because Linux lacks the necessary applications. I NEED Finale's feature pack... I can't settle for Musescore.

As for Excel, what do you suggest they use that's better? They need something that's a 1:1 feature-complete replacement. So suggest one... I'll wait.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2handband View Post
As for Excel, what do you suggest they use that's better? They need something that's a 1:1 feature-complete replacement. So suggest one... I'll wait.
Excel's features are its biggest fault. In trying to be everything to everyone it fails to do any one thing properly, predictably and accurately. If you're trying to get to the bottom of a dataset then the last thing you should be doing is trying to make it look pretty and doing things like removing leading zeros or converting random cells into dates.
As to a better tool -- that, I admit, I don't know but what I do know is that until somebody comes up with a tool to do the job properly Excel will continue to trash data and cause many of us headaches.
 
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Old 11-12-2017, 01:23 PM   #5
pwalden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2handband View Post
You're being deliberately obtuse. Almost ALL serious computer based work is done on Windows or Mac, because Linux lacks the necessary applications. I NEED Finale's feature pack... I can't settle for Musescore.

As for Excel, what do you suggest they use that's better? They need something that's a 1:1 feature-complete replacement. So suggest one... I'll wait.
I am no more obtuse than you as you have already decided on the solutions architecture when you chose windows for a platform. You have already gone down the blind alley, and as you are blind to other possibilities, of course you resort to trolling to reassure your poor choices. You have to look beyond calling for 1:1 replacements proprietary windows applications before you can really see how the real world works.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:29 PM   #6
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2handband View Post
Excel
Excel runs perfectly on Linux (as an in-browser-app).

The rest of your rant is only about the very narrow and specific field of prosumer-level music recording. So you're really asking not about "apps on Linux", but exclusively about "prosumer-level music recording apps on Linux". So who is being "deliberately obtuse" here?

Last edited by dugan; 11-12-2017 at 01:34 PM.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:34 PM   #7
2handband
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Originally Posted by pwalden View Post
I am no more obtuse than you as you have already decided on the solutions architecture when you chose windows for a platform. You have already gone down the blind alley, and as you are blind to other possibilities, of course you resort to trolling to reassure your poor choices. You have to look beyond calling for 1:1 replacements proprietary windows applications before you can really see how the real world works.
Sigghhh... and here is part of the problem. The moment anyone criticizes the way things are done in the land of Linux, they're trolls. Believe me, I'd like nothing better than to go back to Linux but I didn't make a choice so much as got forced. What possibilities am I blind to? Please illuminate me on the possibilities... which aren't possibilities at all if I have to settle for lesser applications.

I repeat: the only reason anyone uses a computer is to run applications. I need to be able to choose the BEST application for a task, not settle for second place because of the platform I'm using. And since I'm using pro software for pro purposes, I simply can't afford to let the platform take precedence over the apps themselves.

As for how the real world works: this is how the real world works. A computer is a tool. It's purpose is to make hard tasks easier. That takes good applications, and none of the best ones run on Linux. So what is the community going to do to address this, or have we been pissing in the wind all this time?
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:37 PM   #8
2handband
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Excel runs perfectly on Linux (as an in-browser-app).

The rest of your rant is only about the very narrow and specific field of prosumer-level music recording. So you're really asking not about "apps on Linux", but exclusively about "prosumer-level music recording apps on Linux". So who is being "deliberately obtuse" here?
Pro accounting (quickbooks, etc).

Pro document creation (adobe creative suite nothing even comes close and you know it)

Pro drafting/engineering (autocad, etc)

Basically pro ANYTHING is off the table. If you bring your work home, you can't use Linux. I spent a decade naively believing that was going to change.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:37 PM   #9
pwalden
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Originally Posted by 2handband View Post
Sigghhh... and here is part of the problem...
Sigghhh... Yes I know, don't feed the trolls.

It was Sunday here and I had few minutes for chuckle.

Last edited by pwalden; 11-12-2017 at 01:39 PM.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:37 PM   #10
dugan
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Quickbooks Online

* puts troll in ignore list

EDIT:

You *are* paying for all that prosumer-level Windows software that you say you need to use, right?

Last edited by dugan; 11-12-2017 at 01:40 PM.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:39 PM   #11
2handband
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Quickbooks Online

* puts troll in ignore list
OK, quickbooks being online is a new one on me. But there's a lot of stuff that is NOT cloud-based and won't be for a long time if ever.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:41 PM   #12
2handband
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Quickbooks Online

* puts troll in ignore list

EDIT:

You *are* paying for all that prosumer-level Windows software that you say you need to use, right?
Yup... no choice. I don't think free software will ever catch up in those areas. Community projects can't compete with armies of paid devs, not in highly specialized areas anyway.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:41 PM   #13
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2handband View Post
I repeat: the only reason anyone uses a computer is to run applications. I need to be able to choose the BEST application for a task, not settle for second place because of the platform I'm using. And since I'm using pro software for pro purposes, I simply can't afford to let the platform take precedence over the apps themselves.
So why do you even want to run a Linux-based system?
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:45 PM   #14
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2handband View Post
OK, quickbooks being online is a new one on me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2handband View Post
Yup... no choice [but to buy and pay]
Since we're talking about licenses that cost hundreds of dollars, you might want to research the selections better before you put money down. Or posting here, for that matter.

Last edited by dugan; 11-12-2017 at 01:46 PM.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:46 PM   #15
2handband
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I'm sad for you. How much money did you throw away because you made assumptions about what was actually available?
No assumptions made; much research done. But seriously, I'll bite. What would you use in place of Pro Tools, Finale, or Auto Cad?
 
  


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