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Old 11-21-2016, 04:23 PM   #1
-Snake-
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(Discussion) Systemd, our new init


Hello. There is a theme that always comes to mind and that as you know has been very controversial within the Linux community, I mean the new system init "systemd", a lot has been said about it especially that goes against the philosophy * NIX, have emerged forks as devuan linux countless articles in blogs loaded against this project etc ...

While some projects even important projects such as GNOME continued their development making their software dependent on this system.

What do you think of all this? (I mean to the system administrator, for a simple desktop user is indifferent)

PD: This is a healthy debate, I do not want to attack anyone or any project
 
Old 11-21-2016, 04:30 PM   #2
notKlaatu
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This topic has been covered in MANY threads in the very recent past. Maybe look at one of them instead of starting a new one?

Alternately, if you're looking to get started with systemd, see its documentation: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd - this points to several sets of documents on how to learn and use systemd effectively.

Or if you are seeking to not use systemd, see the excellent http://without-systemd.org website, which will point you to Linux distributions without systemd, and also teach you how to remove systemd if you're using a distribution that is using it. I wrote the ninit article, but there are several other good options out there.
 
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Old 11-21-2016, 05:55 PM   #3
sundialsvcs
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Well, I just recently was (pleasantly ...) reminded, by systemd, of something that I had long remembered:

Quote:
/etc/crontab sux!
I had a fairly complex requirement that previously had been "handled" (sic) by a tangled mess of cron-jobs. There was a lot of logic in there which dealt with the fact that, not only does cron really not know what it is doing, but it especially does not know what it has done. We were able to develop a much more satisfactory solution to the problem, simply because there was a much more sophisticated infrastructure to work from: an infrastructure that is actually aware of its various components, and able to communicate.

The "classic Unix" daemons were terrific on a timeshared minicomputer of the 1970's, but they pale in comparison to what other operating systems could do. The "systemd" project ... baroque though it is ... does bring Linux's built-in capability on par with the others.

I greatly needed this additional capability, and was very glad to have it.

And-d-d-d-ddd ... "Unix/Linux being what is," you still(!) have a realistic choice. If, for whatever application and/or for whatever reason, you conclude that this thing is "massive overkill" for you (or: you just don't like the smell of it), you are n-o-t bound to it. You can throw it out. You can even hack it! (In the good sense of the word, "hack.")

A few months ago, in a meeting with a different client and in a you-know-who context, I found myself saying: "Well, that's just what Microsoft decided to do, so there's really nothing that you can do about it." And ... (forgive me, Father, for I have sinned) ... mentally, I was thinking to myself that it would be so nice to have then said: "... sux-for-you that you didn't decide to use Linux, where you could have done something about it."

Frankly, I hope that this "tempest in a teapot" can some day turn into iced tea, because we really are just talking about: a(nother) (open source, of course) software tool. The team that built it, by and large, "did a damned good job." But there's nothing in this programming-universe that says you have to use it. (And, for this, you are very lucky.)

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 11-21-2016 at 06:01 PM.
 
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Old 11-21-2016, 06:02 PM   #4
jamison20000e
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Philosophy is one thing, computers or stone tablets with rules on them are some others... what do you want? IMHO philosophically speaking things move forward and what percent of free software (that should remain $o) users are programmers with evolving *wares?

Last edited by jamison20000e; 11-21-2016 at 06:06 PM. Reason: i meant $0 to look like so but still imply zero &c... money to be made there tho ;-)
 
Old 11-21-2016, 07:03 PM   #5
Jjanel
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Past 'top' LQ systemd discussions (&OT: Oracle's 1999 chance to replace M$)

LQ Advanced Search: systemd TitleONLY AtLeast60+Replys ShowResults as Threads
17: one has 1,686 posts; a recent tweet (20+Replys Search only LinuxGeneral finds 8)

OT: I remember in Y2K Oracle saying: ...runs on M$ desktop... and being incredulous that they
didn't use their leverage to say: ...runs on included free Linux desktop... to squash&replace M$

Last edited by Jjanel; 11-21-2016 at 07:23 PM.
 
Old 11-22-2016, 04:38 AM   #6
-Snake-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Well, I just recently was (pleasantly ...) reminded, by systemd, of something that I had long remembered:



I had a fairly complex requirement that previously had been "handled" (sic) by a tangled mess of cron-jobs. There was a lot of logic in there which dealt with the fact that, not only does cron really not know what it is doing, but it especially does not know what it has done. We were able to develop a much more satisfactory solution to the problem, simply because there was a much more sophisticated infrastructure to work from: an infrastructure that is actually aware of its various components, and able to communicate.

The "classic Unix" daemons were terrific on a timeshared minicomputer of the 1970's, but they pale in comparison to what other operating systems could do. The "systemd" project ... baroque though it is ... does bring Linux's built-in capability on par with the others.

I greatly needed this additional capability, and was very glad to have it.

And-d-d-d-ddd ... "Unix/Linux being what is," you still(!) have a realistic choice. If, for whatever application and/or for whatever reason, you conclude that this thing is "massive overkill" for you (or: you just don't like the smell of it), you are n-o-t bound to it. You can throw it out. You can even hack it! (In the good sense of the word, "hack.")

A few months ago, in a meeting with a different client and in a you-know-who context, I found myself saying: "Well, that's just what Microsoft decided to do, so there's really nothing that you can do about it." And ... (forgive me, Father, for I have sinned) ... mentally, I was thinking to myself that it would be so nice to have then said: "... sux-for-you that you didn't decide to use Linux, where you could have done something about it."

Frankly, I hope that this "tempest in a teapot" can some day turn into iced tea, because we really are just talking about: a(nother) (open source, of course) software tool. The team that built it, by and large, "did a damned good job." But there's nothing in this programming-universe that says you have to use it. (And, for this, you are very lucky.)
Yes, i agree with you, I think it's mostly exaggerations that have been said and maybe be reluctant to change, and a lot of hysteria attack, especially people saying that it is passed to Freebsd etc ... Although some time systemd if I have given problems especially when turning off / restart the computer.

Last edited by -Snake-; 11-22-2016 at 04:48 AM.
 
Old 11-22-2016, 09:01 PM   #7
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Snake- View Post
Yes, i agree with you, I think it's mostly exaggerations that have been said and maybe be reluctant to change, and a lot of hysteria attack, especially people saying that it is passed to Freebsd etc ... Although some time systemd if I have given problems especially when turning off / restart the computer.
Yup ... when faced with "an actual (multi-computer(!!)) situation," [u]and(!)[/i] with the surviving remnants of the Computer Calesthenics & Orthodontia that used(!) to be (yay!!) required "to deal with this selfsame situation" . . .

Yeah, I must admit to it: "I am one of the people who just now genuinely benefitted from(!) what you set out to accomplish." And: "well, you did it (for me)." (That is to say, you accomplished it.) Therefore: "yeah, I'm a pretty happy boy right now."

Therefore, my vote to the much-maligned systemd team would be: "all things considered, well done."

Although, surely ... "Your Mileage May Vary™," I do feel obliged to extend credit where credit is due: "to me, here, right now," this new-and-improved(!) architecture very-much saved my asterisk."

... ...

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 11-22-2016 at 09:06 PM.
 
  


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