Damn, it's tough some days

confused_bof · 03-06-2005, 07:10 AM

I've been mucking around with Linux a couple of years now. For serious work that feeds me, I need to use windows. Except for file serving, Linux is not there for me yet.

Care: <BIG RANT>
Start time: Sunday 8:30am

Anyway, during this time I've been buying the MDK powerpaks. I don't know why, it does seem a lot of money for what is essentially a free product. Support the cause, I say! There is "support" of course, but it goes something like this

Make sure distro supports the grafix card in the PC box.
determine that you have to buy MDK powerpak because free version doesn't include drivers for nvidia
Install
drivers don't work- box freezes

Contact support - "Sorry, your question doesn't fit the criteria for the level of support you purchased".

Hang on, I bought the package because you guys told me it's the best way to get NVIDIA cards sorted and now you say it's not your problem??

"Sorry, your question doesn't fit the criteria for the level of support you purchased".

You get the drift.

I'm not buying any more powerpaks and MDK10.1 will probably be my last MDK.

MADWIFI
I like wireless networking. Our house is full of it. Even the big tv thingie in the family room is attached to a wireless networked PC (Sorry, it's windows, kids. No can do Digital TV on a linux box yet. Not as easily as Windoze, anyways. AFAIK)

But I wanted wireless on the two linux PCs we have, so since NETGEAR WG311's are available to me, I had to learn about madwifi, compiling kernel modules, how the kernel source has to match the actual kernel version, lsmod and modprobe and stickitupyourmod etc.

The help of a few patient LQers was invaluable (thanks guys, you know who you are), I'm pretty good at it now. On an MDK box I can just about do it in my sleep. In fact, I often dream about it...... actually, I think I was having a nightmare

My MDK Linux boxes wireless network pretty good now. And madwifi is nifty too.

Moving on
Now, last week I get hold of fedora core 3. Got a spare hard disk and a PC in my office has those nifty slide out boxes for them. So it was no big deal to tempt the fates.

Someone said the NVIDIA driver even works.

So I install FC3. Very smooth. Very nice. No wonder Australian pcAuthority reckons it's the best all 'round Linux solution.

Now to install madwifi. Following my well learnt course under MDK10.1, I proceed more or less the same. Do the "make" thing....

Shite! errors. I know enough to realise the kernel source isn't available.

Start searching the CDs. Nup. No source anywhere. Go to another PC (Windows, of course. You must have a Windows PC for emergencies)

Google. Find the answer - FC3 doesn't pack source. Ya gotta download it, stupid!

OK, I'm on dial up here. 38M is a bit much.

Other solutions??

Google. Ahhh, there's a madwifi package for FC3.

Download the package.

Doesn't want to work - the package is for another, later kernel.

Back to the web. search for matching package. guess what, about the only kernel version there isn't a madwifi package for is, yes folks, the version I have.

The LINUX experts give me instructions on upgrading the kernel. Hang on guys, I'm still sane and I like it. In any case, that down load is even larger than the FC3 kernel source src.rpm - Why is that?

So I download the FC3 kernel source src.rpm, which finally arrives in full at around Sunday, 10:00pm.

As soon as I try to rpm the package I get some warning about an invalid key. What key??

Seems to install, but didn't as quickly verified when I try a make on madwifi.

It is now nearly midnight, and I have spent all of today trying to get the (wireless) network running on a linux box. Linux is good at networking, right? Just lousy on hardware and unforgiving on dabblers.

The pundits can scream all they like, and I agree Linux distros are much better now than two years ago, but Linux remains a geeky unproductive OS to most of us.
</BIG RANT>

Will I battle on with FC3 or some other distro?

Of course I will. If I'm stupid enough to waste a brilliant Sunday on this sort of nonsense you know I won't rest until the whole house is on Linux.

jeez, I just realised, the motorbike hasn't been out of the shed for weeks.

Regards

XavierP · 03-06-2005, 07:21 AM

Hardware support will always be a bugbear under Linux. Microsoft are able to offer 2 main things to hardware manufacturers: monetary incentives and the fact that they are the majority systems. This means that a manufacturer will find it more cost effective to support Windows.

We have 2 options: hope a manufacturer will produce good working drivers for Linux or hope that some genius programmer(s) can figure out how to get it to work. Manufacturers are more and more supporting Linux, but it is slow and hard going.

Glad to hear that you haven't given up. Incidentally, do you not have a local internet cafe/place of work/university/school/friend with a speedy connection that will allow you to download files for burning?

confused_bof · 03-06-2005, 07:26 AM

Quote:

[i]Glad to hear that you haven't given up. Incidentally, do you not have a local internet cafe/place of work/university/school/friend with a speedy connection that will allow you to download files for burning? [/B]

No, I live some distance from such places. Our dial up is pretty good, seldom connects at less than 48kbps (real) and 900mhz (frq) wireless is promised before mid year. They're saying the wirelss will give 1mbps both ways!! Damn, that'd be nice.

In the meantime I tend to order larger files, like distros, from a Sydney (AU) vendor. The price is cheap enough

BY the way, I just don't understand the rationale for not packing the kernel source in FC3. One required make on a kernel module and you're stuffed!

regards

XavierP · 03-06-2005, 07:32 AM

Quote:

From the Fedora Core 3 Release Notes
In order to eliminate the redundancy inherent in providing a separate package for the kernel source code when that source code already exists in the kernel's .src.rpm file, Fedora Core 3 no longer includes the kernel-source package. Users that require access to the kernel sources can find them in the kernel .src.rpm file. To create an exploded source tree from this file, perform the following steps (note that <version> refers to the version specification for your currently-running kernel):

1.

Obtain the kernel-<version>.src.rpm file from one of the following sources:
*

The SRPMS directory on the appropriate "SRPMS" CD iso image
*

The FTP site where you got the kernel package
*

By running the following command:

up2date --get-source kernel
2.

Install kernel-<version>.src.rpm (given the default RPM configuration, the files this package contains will be written to /usr/src/redhat/)
3.

Change directory to /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/, and issue the following command:

rpmbuild -bp --target=<arch> kernel.spec

(Where <arch> is the desired target architecture.)

On a default RPM configuration, the kernel tree will be located in /usr/src/redhat/BUILD/.
4.

In resulting tree, the configurations for the specific kernels shipped in Fedora Core 3 are in the /configs/ directory. For example, the i686 SMP configuration file is named /configs/kernel-<version>-i686-smp.config. Issue the following command to place the desired configuration file in the proper place for building:

cp <desired-file> ./.config
5.

Issue the following command:

make oldconfig

You can then proceed as usual.
Note

An exploded source tree is not required to build kernel modules against the currently in-use kernel.

For example, to build the foo.ko module, create the following file (named Makefile) in the directory containing the foo.c file:

Code:

obj-m := foo.o KDIR := /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build PWD := $(shell pwd) default: $(MAKE) -C $(KDIR) SUBDIRS=$(PWD) modules

Issue the make command to build the foo.ko module.

That's why

exvor · 03-06-2005, 12:34 PM

Because redhat is crap and i dont care what others say here.

Red hat has a wierd convoluted way of doing things they dont like to follow standards.

Mandrake yes i have used it and your fustration with them seems genuine. I used there free os before 9 and i got to say when they went to 9/10 they took 12 steps back on the eveloutionary scale.

Slackware has always been a winner for me. There is a ezy package management software and all the source is provided for everything. Only gripe about slack is no dependancy checking so it expects you know what your doing. <-- this is something they need to really impliment because after doing a minimal install of slack getting gnome on is a NIGHTMARE OF LIB CHECKIng

Slack is the Unix of linux. Everything is where it should be and the boot scrips are all in one ezy location. Now that I have gotten cuddly with slack the only other distros i enjoy are gentoo and LFS

BTW i have never had a windows box as an emergency backup solution. and your right abotu V4L it needs to be improved alot its way to hard getting shit right in there. But then again the other comments here about drivers is really true linux has a very good driver database but albeit its not as good as windows. <-- explained better in the above posts

considering that linux in a sense is free and you had to pay 300 us dollors for windows xp professional then in reality linux is not all that bad.

I do windows xp support for a 3rd party company for microsoft considering that my job is always on the way out because india people are takeing all the tech jobs I feel sorry for the furture windows users India people may have a good education but the ones who are doing tech support are about as good as taking your computer to a truck mechanic

confused_bof · 03-06-2005, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XavierP
That's why

That's what I mean about Linux- some within it do not live on this planet.

confused_bof · 03-06-2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by exvor
Slack is the Unix of linux. Everything is where it should be and the boot scrips are all in one ezy location. Now that I have gotten cuddly with slack the only other distros i enjoy are gentoo and LFS

I'm gonna try that. Gonna give that Debian thing a whirl too.

Quote:

Originally posted by exvor
I do windows xp support for a 3rd party company for microsoft considering that my job is always on the way out because india people are takeing all the tech jobs I feel sorry for the furture windows users India people may have a good education but the ones who are doing tech support are about as good as taking your computer to a truck mechanic

That's a tough one. I write business/ data management apps for small to medium business. I work in a niche market. So i have gotten to know many Indian folks, especially those who want to sub contract from me. I find they are top notch at what they do in IT. I think what probably upsets us (Westerners) that the IT worker is becoming the modern labourer, which means that increasingly they will work longer hours for less pay.

The signs are everywhere.

And no one wants to be a labourer.