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Old 06-05-2011, 04:37 PM   #16
theif519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
My personal opinion: If you want to do an persuasive essay, build it up on facts. It brings next to nothing to try to persuade people with propositions that are simply wrong and can be simply falsified.

Some things I found that are wrong (I think, please correct me if I am incorrect):
1. As stated before, buying a Mac for gaming isn't the best thing, but it works. But why do I have to add the costs of downloading games from Steam if I buy a Mac. Are Steam games freely available for Windows? I doubt.

2. Really, "greedy bastards" in a persuasive essay?

3. I am biased against the term "user-friendly". You can see here why.

4. Since when has a distribution has to integrate a GUI in their repositories to count as a distribution?

5. Where can I find that repository that stores all of the software for GNU/Linux?

6.Plain wrong. I can make any change I want to a GPL licensed code, and doesn't have to share anything, as long as I use it for my self and are not distributing it. I only have to share the new code if I want to distribute the app together with the changes.

7. Again, "cheating bastards" in an essay. And then, insulting others, just because you are totally misinformed? As stated above, Mac OS X is based on BSD, and the BSD license allows the developers to make derived work closed source.

8. This sentence makes not any sense to me at all. Besides that Wine is not an emulator but more an application wrapper, why should Wine emulate an Windows application as if it where for Windows? It is for Windows already?

9. If an application does run in Wine has nothing to do with if it is resource intensive. Otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to use Wine for running games.

10. Please share with me where I can get a legal Windows Live-CD that is installable.

Just my opinion, as stated, and not meant to be offensive:
You will be more persuasive with facts. Reason your conclusions with easily provable facts, not opinions.
I appreciate the constructive criticism, and although it did hurt a little to find out that a lot of stuff I have is false, I appreciate informing me. One thing about the GPL though, you said you can make any change to it but on the website it said that any change has to remain freeware, < http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html > in the preamble. Also, I will be doing a bit of editing on the persuasive essay. Although, yes, I do in fact curse in my essay, but my teacher is very lenient about it.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 04:45 PM   #17
TobiSGD
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I think you do mean this part of the preamble:
Quote:
For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code.
The keywords here: if you distribute copies of such a program.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 04:51 PM   #18
theif519
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Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
I think you do mean this part of the preamble:The keywords here: if you distribute copies of such a program.
Sorry, must have skipped that, I was referring to

Quote:
The licenses for most software and other practical works are designed to take away your freedom to share and change the works. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change all versions of a program--to make sure it remains free software for all its users. We, the Free Software Foundation, use the GNU General Public License for most of our software; it applies also to any other work released this way by its authors. You can apply it to your programs, too.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 05:58 PM   #19
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The licence has always applied to distributed code. If you write a program and keep it entirely to yourself (it also applies if you write a program for your employer but do not use the program outside of your employer's company) then you do not have to distribute the code. If you stick the program on the internet or sell it or offer it to customers then you must make the source code available and you must ensure it is correctly licenced.
 
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:27 PM   #20
theif519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierP View Post
The licence has always applied to distributed code. If you write a program and keep it entirely to yourself (it also applies if you write a program for your employer but do not use the program outside of your employer's company) then you do not have to distribute the code. If you stick the program on the internet or sell it or offer it to customers then you must make the source code available and you must ensure it is correctly licenced.
Thank you for explaining that. So you can modify it, but you just can't distribute it to selected people, but to anybody and everybody, or keep it to yourself, correct?
 
Old 06-05-2011, 06:33 PM   #21
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Modified GPL code, released derivative work as proprietary = not okay.
Modified GPL code, only shared within a company as proprietary (i.e. not released to the outside world) = okay.
Modified GPL code, kept it to yourself = okay.
Modified GPL code, released under GPL or equivalent (compatible) license = okay.
Modified GPL code, released PD = not okay.

Did not modify GPL code, released under proprietary license = not okay.
Did not modify GPL code, released under GPL or compatible license = okay.
Did not modify GPL code, released PD = not okay.

This is my basic understanding of how it works. If anyone knows better, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above rules.

Last edited by MrCode; 06-05-2011 at 06:34 PM. Reason: damn inconsistencies :p
 
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:06 PM   #22
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Building on what TobiSGD said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
My personal opinion: If you want to do an persuasive essay, build it up on facts. It brings next to nothing to try to persuade people with propositions that are simply wrong and can be simply falsified. Some things I found that are wrong (I think, please correct me if I am incorrect):
Could not agree more with that statement, and would add that hyperbole tends to make people skeptical as well. To go down the essay from the top:
  • Lots of games run just fine on MacOSX, without the need for Windows 7 at ALL. And you say "download the games off Steam"...sorry, but not ALL games are on Steam, and that would mislead a reader who didn't know any better. And there is a rather long list of games that run under Linux with Point-and-Play (granted, a piece of commercial-software, but not expensive).
  • On top of that, did you actually look up things about Netflix? Netflix announced in December 2010 that HTML5 support was going to be adopted...and that the Google Chrome browser has a plug-in for it, which would enable ANYTHING that runs the Chrome browser to use Netflix.
  • Calling people narrow-minded is a bit harsh. You're obviously young...keep in mind that a computer is a TOOL, nothing more. For example, I know Linux very well...I can do things with it quite easily, and know how to resolve problems. A good friend of mine is the same way with Windows. Neither of us is going to change...because we don't NEED to. The tools we have are getting the job done for us, period. What you should be emphasizing is that there are enough differences to make changing a learning experience, rather than putting it down to narrow-mindedness. In a business setting, why should an accountant be asked to give up months of productivity learning a OpenOffice, rather than sticking with Excel? Yes, Excel is a commercial product...but the accountants TIME is worth more money than I'd save by using OpenOffice, no matter what OS it ran on.
  • Unix and BSD have been around for MANY years...well before Linux came on the scene. Users of those systems weren't referred to as "hackers", and the people who used them weren't just developers or programmers.
  • I take a different issue with the "user friendliness" term. Specifically, that it's too dynamic. I use the latest KDE, and the ONLY icon on my desktop is a Lancelot launcher, a hidden panel with a system tray and task bar, and that's it. However, it's VERY easy for me to find things, since it's what *I* want. Someone else would want their desktop loaded with icons/folders/whatever...and that's THEIR definition of friendly. Again, it gets back to the learning curve, and what you want. Is OSX difficult? Not at all...but if you're used to KDE, it sure is...and by your definition, that would make OSX NOT user friendly. How about comparing Win7 to Gnome? You CAN make it look very similar...but that doesn't make it more 'friendly'...just easier to learn.
  • The viruses issue is false. It's not because the code is checked better, but there are a few reasons. One is market share; yes Linux is growing...but Windows is still the king of the desktop, mainly because Joe Sixpack gets it on their new computer, and can't be bothered to change it (go back to what I said earlier. If J.S. wants to play a video and surf the web, they CAN, for the money they already spent). Second is privilege separation...in Windows, alot of important things run as admin, with NO WAY to make it different, or change it. In Linux, that's not the case. Third is the applications...go back to Joe Sixpack. Their computer has IE, Outlook, and whatever else comes with Windows. So knowing these things makes it VERY easy to write a virus for it. What are the options for Linux? That's right.....LOTS. If you don't know, you can't program for it. So virus/bot makers want to spend as little time and effort as possible, for the greatest results...which means exploiting what's already there.
  • When you talk about configuration, you need to separate out the OS from the desktop GUI. Pretty much any desktop GUI can run on any Linux distro. And when you say "Want something that resembles Windows? Try KDE 4.6"...that's VERY ironic. Why? Because you first tout how things can be configured to your liking...then indicate that KDE 4.6 can ONLY look like Windows, and Gnome2.x can ONLY look like OSX. I know you're NOT saying that, but it IMPLIES that. I can make KDE look like OSX OR Windows. Same with Gnome.
  • You go on to mention (point 7) the Xerox PARC vs Apple debate. Did Xerox invent it? Yes. Did they DO anything with it? No...but Apple did, so the statement that Apple brought the first GUI desktop to market is very accurate. Saying that Xerox is barely known is VERY inaccurate...they are a powerhouse, and still are developing very cutting edge stuff. The business world knows Xerox VERY well. And mentioning a teachers name in a paper certainly narrows the readership..since who else outside one school is going to KNOW that teacher?
  • Point 9 - I'd avoid mentioning specific applications for specific needs, but be more general. Saying that you've examined a Windows machine, and for each application you found, you could easily find a free Linux application is a bit better. And comparing GIMP to Photoshop, and saying that Photoshop is a 'waste' of $400 is narrow thinking. Again, go back to the learning curve/what you know from before...if you're a professional graphics artist, and know Photoshop like the back of your hand, you may NEED Photoshop...and the plugins, tablet support, etc.
  • Point 10 - Avoid mentioning things you haven't tried and speculating. A Google search could tell you if iTunes will run under WINE. And there IS NO WINDOWS LIVE-CD.
  • Point 11 - You mention Lubuntu...but there are MANY lightweight distros, so unless you're going to mention several and compare/contrast them, then it's best not to center on one.
  • And in your conclusion, you say "As you can see, GNU/Linux is a very stable, secure, fast, lightweight, and FREE Operating System"....you have NOT provided PROOF of this. Proof would be saying something like "We've taken 250 Windows machines, 250 Linux machines, and 250 Mac's, and have had users perform the following...xxxxx, here are the results, broken down by xxxx". You have reported on your personal experience.
 
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:14 PM   #23
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You need to be a lot more formal with your English if your writing academically. Even if this is the very early in high school, you'll need to get into the habit of sounding less like your chatting to a friend. Trust me it will help you in later years if you start working on it now.

Depending on how much report/essay writing your going to be doing in your academic life time (planning on doing a science/engineering degree?) you might want to look into Latex as it's a very handy way to make extremely professional looking documents. There are a lot of tutorials on getting started with latex scattered around the internet.

Also, don't be discouraged by the feed back your getting here. It's very good to see that you're so passionate about GNU/Linux at (presumably) a young age. It took me till half way through University until I caught that fever, I wish it was younger.

Regards
 
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:40 PM   #24
theif519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D1ver View Post
You need to be a lot more formal with your English if your writing academically. Even if this is the very early in high school, you'll need to get into the habit of sounding less like your chatting to a friend. Trust me it will help you in later years if you start working on it now.

Depending on how much report/essay writing your going to be doing in your academic life time (planning on doing a science/engineering degree?) you might want to look into Latex as it's a very handy way to make extremely professional looking documents. There are a lot of tutorials on getting started with latex scattered around the internet.

Also, don't be discouraged by the feed back your getting here. It's very good to see that you're so passionate about GNU/Linux at (presumably) a young age. It took me till half way through University until I caught that fever, I wish it was younger.

Regards
I appreciate the concern, but although it does discourage me the first time reading it, after reading I realize they're right and think to myself "I don't know enough about Linux, time to learn more!" Also, I'm learning a lot from them as well. It'll help me learn not to use invalid information and check with sources before I publish something.
 
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theif519 View Post
I appreciate the concern, but although it does discourage me the first time reading it, after reading I realize they're right and think to myself "I don't know enough about Linux, time to learn more!" Also, I'm learning a lot from them as well. It'll help me learn not to use invalid information and check with sources before I publish something.
Well, please don't get discouraged. You *DID* ask for opinions.

And I agree with D1ver 100% too. Writing well will convey WHATEVER your ideas are, with much more impact than writing poorly. It's just a matter of looking at your writings objectively.

When you're trying to put a point forward, don't get bogged down (too much) in WHAT you're saying, but in HOW you're saying it. Make your point as clearly and as quickly as you can, then back it up. Don't consider the document FINISHED, until you've researched EVERYTHING on it...how did you back up each point? Where did you get the info? Were there multiple sources, or just one? If you do that, anything you write will be fairly bulletproof, and the great side-effect is that you'll learn LOTS more in the process. Also, you'll learn how to think in a more critical fashion, and learn to not take things at face value, without seeing some actual proof. Very handy if you ever turn on your local news...
 
Old 06-06-2011, 08:19 AM   #26
theif519
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Thank you all for the advice and constructive criticism, I appreciate it all. The paper has been turned in today and I am awaiting results.
 
Old 06-06-2011, 05:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theif519 View Post
Thank you all for the advice and constructive criticism, I appreciate it all. The paper has been turned in today and I am awaiting results.
Hopefully your teacher comes in with Linux running on their laptop. Good luck
 
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCode View Post
Modified GPL code, released derivative work as proprietary = not okay.
Modified GPL code, only shared within a company as proprietary (i.e. not released to the outside world) = okay.
Modified GPL code, kept it to yourself = okay.
Modified GPL code, released under GPL or equivalent (compatible) license = okay.
Modified GPL code, released PD = not okay.

Did not modify GPL code, released under proprietary license = not okay.
Did not modify GPL code, released under GPL or compatible license = okay.
Did not modify GPL code, released PD = not okay.

This is my basic understanding of how it works. If anyone knows better, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above rules.
Pretty much right...apart from the way that a lot of compaines with 'open source' code require a copyright assignment.

If copyright is assigned, then the company can release proprietary, closed source software based on GPLed software without any legal problems.
 
  


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