Buy a computer without windoze
 

I want to buy a new laptop with AMD Ryzen 7 processors.

I am in China.

We saw a good laptop from HP with 5800U Ryzen7 processors, more than enough computer for my puny needs! (No games, no manipulating videos, just simple stuff.)

The gf called HP today and asked if they would sell it to me without Windoze.

They said, and I quote: "We can't do that, it's a government regulation: all computers must have Windows!"

Really??

Does Microsoft belong to China now??

The Chinese government pretty much does as it pleases, requires as it pleases. It might be that the Chinese government limits the HP models allowed for sale at its whim, one that might deny sale without an installed (Windows) operating system.

Generally speaking, low volume or special models cost the business that makes them extra, for which usually a premium price is attached. Most PCs and laptops without Windows installed are very low volume, so usually cost more, not equal or less. Typically it's best just to accept Windows, then delete it if it isn't wanted. It doesn't really cost anything to a retail computer buyer.

A while back I had a shop build a box to my specs. They would do a burn-in the whole deal. They got very bitter and twisted when I said I didn't want Windozw, I'd organise Linux for it. They needed to install 'doze for the burn-in and were loath to remove it - and it wouldn't save me anything. I just told them to leave it.

Must be nice being Microsoft: every computer sold must contain your product.

As far as I know, Windows is never free like Ubuntu. I think it costs about US$140 for the home edition. Even when you buy it with the computer, it's probably not free!

Isn't forced sale a cartel? Illegal in most countries??

Most manufacurers are contracted to install Windows, for which they get it dirt cheap, a few £££'s - it's how Microsoft can get its OS into peoples homes & businesses. Once people use a computer, they get stuck, because they don't want to learn something new, another reason why so many people are using vastly out dated Windows software.

Just buy it at its normal price, try to sell the licence, if you can, & put Linux onto the disk. :)

Billy G. vaccine-gates
https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/bill-g...merica-report/

Yes, that kind of activity has been going on since the illegal¹, per-processor² fees. Within weeks of that getting shutdown, M$ moved to sales "partnerships" and so on, to keep the same functional effect. After a while they were on the way to make white-box systems illegal. That is why you generally cannot buy a system without an OS and just install your own any more.

Keep asking vendors.

What are your options abount (re-)importing from the EU or the US? There is a growing number of good vendors on both sides of the Atlantic now.

¹ USA v Microsoft: Civil Action No. 94-1564 (SS) Competitive Impact Statement

² USA v Microsoft: Judge Charles R. Richey

There are only two ways to voice our discontent
1- Build our own rig
2- Stop buying new computers. We can 'downgrade' to lighter distros like Antix, Puppy ... and continue to live happily ever after.
It's good for the environment too.

Really, we can stop buying new computers without "downgrading" since there are so many Windows users that seem to need the latest and greatest so there are always quite high-end machines available on the used market.

The firm that said Chinese computers had to use Windows were lying in the hope that you would buy their product! In fact, the Chinese government is moving to Linux:
Linux migration in China
Kylin

Yes but the idea there is that you are having to pay the microsoft tax. The OEM has to charge $40 for a microsoft licence, and they pass that on to you. The excuse usually given is that the OEM has to test it, and that requires windows.

Some people on Newegg are now selling computers without an OS. The same model is $40 cheaper that the windows one. So, they have figured out how to do it, and they come with a warranty.

With the sooperflu the pawn brokers are full of them..tools too

Craigslist has been a place to watch for decent used computers this last year. I've seen i7 4790, 24GB RAM, 1TB HD, DT 710, for $100 in my area.

As per post #8...the last few times I have needed a new PC I just bought the bits.

It is usually impossible to buy a laptop in parts to build it yourself. I might not even trust parts bought in some countries. Wonder if you can get a product from outside your country?

I'd wonder what sort of programs might also be included in a computer bought in some countries, even Sony had issues.

Guess if you live in China you might more easily find out if the seller's statement is accurate. I know they are working on either a clone of MS or a complete replacement. They did have a linux distro.

However, you should be able to buy anything and replace it with linux, and check it via some good firewall.

Interesting - for the last three I had built for me in Melbourne, the two shops were quite happy to install, burn-in and nuke. One of the shops even advertise the windows free option on some computers.

At least on old hardware microcough-windblows10 is "free," they just don't want you to know or have all settings available if so. E.g: https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you...se-windows-10/
they seem to have removed lots of restrictions like changing your wallpaper or showing all system tray items &c.. I recently installed 10 pro (for free from m$) to play some of my old games... and close enough examples: https://github.com/Sycnex/Debloat-Windows-10 :hattip:

but they, like most corporations including canonical only make it free to own you!

Consider searching, "About 537,000 results (1.09 seconds)" like, KDE Slimbook::: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=open+sourc...22&t=h_&ia=web

or my favorite: https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena

https://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-e...ith-no-secrets

:D

With Open Source Hardware slowly evolving(-why else run the softwares(!?):banghead:) my next device will not have $andow$ just $o I can wipe it clean. :p Used or refurbished hardware can get you around paying for Windowz in the first place? Just to wipe it. ;)

Thank you all!

Very interesting! A kind of digital MSafia!

Maybe in Europe or America I could even try Windows, but in China, there is so much invasive software that gets sneakily installed and is hard to junk!

Also, Windows users think having 4 horizontal desktops is cool, although they don't use them!

If a computer doesn't have at least 16 desktops and wobbly windows (Thank you sooo very much Compiz, the Window God!) I feel an allergic reaction coming on!

I don't think China will ever switch to Linux. The government can't control it like Windows. Too many security protocols.

I did a web search for "does china require windows on computers" and could not find confirmation that it does. I did, however, find this: https://www.computerworld.com/articl...t-edition.html

It may shed some light on the question.

Aside: There's a reason I buy my computers from native Linux vendors when I can. As Zareason has gone out of business, I got my latest from ThinkPenguin, and it is working quite nicely, thank you very much. Ironically, it is a Clevo Style Note; I believe Clevo is based in Taiwan.

Isn't Deepin a Chinese owned company?

Buying a computer with or without indows doesn't mean that the chips* aren't embedded to spy on you! Some area* codes and Co.'s may require stronger detection and tinfoil saringes?! :jawa:

sorry forgot to mention
 

Back when I use indows and Linux both, all the time, I would buy a computer and completely re-install everything using a "clean" :rolleyes: m$.iso... (electronics stores like Best Buy install their own junk before you take it home) the CD key comes on the installed copy, write it down: https://www.online-tech-tips.com/com...s-product-key/using the key written down from:and if you want, for example resale value, you can put indows back on it.

Now that Linux is so easy, I always sell my old PCs with dual boot. Explaining to the customer, 2-OSs one with free everything! ;)

Edit/add, like I should have done last time: not that I'm supporting windows, I fully suggest buying one with a Linux distributor tho open hardware is my next... maybe the MNT Reform. :)

I doubt very much the Chinese government requires windows on computers. In December, 2019 there was a lot of talk about the Chinese government prohibiting the use of windows on government computers as well as their using some Linux such as Kylin or a modified version of it. The Chinese obviously don't want the windows spyware on their government computers, they want their own. I'm sure if they do use/create some Linux version they will violate the various open source licensing agreements.

https://www.techradar.com/news/china...-time-to-shine

"but in China, there is so much invasive software that gets sneakily installed and is hard to junk"

Glad you said that. I'd hate to be accused of being unkind to some countries. :)

I still doubt one can buy a laptop in parts.

Can too. Tho searching laptop kits whould be easier.

Let's not forget, some countries are run by dictators but all kids on earth are too!

I remember there was (maybe still is?) a law in my country that required for all assembled computers sold to be sold with an OS (no idea why or how it came to be), and in that time I bought three PCs (for family, mostly) - and they all came with some linux distro preinstalled that booted only to bash, no graphical interface. :D Ticks the law requirement box, doesn't increase computer's price and takes no time, because they don't even configure and use simplest and fastest install option.

Maybe there's a similar law in China and instead of saying "computer must come preinstalled with an OS" the sales person said "computer must come preinstalled with windows", because to common people OS is Windows.

I'm not into laptops, I find desktops much more convenient to use. But even I need something mobile. Years ago I went shopping for one. Found a refurbished i5 Thinkpad on eBay, $150. Most likely some company was replacing their equipment, this i5 was two years old and had pretty recent/decent hardware at the time. When it arrived I peeled off the Windows license stickers and sold them on eBay for $50. This $100 Thinkpad still serves me today and does everything I need when on the road, even the battery hasn't failed and holds well. You can always spend $2,000 on a new shiny laptop if this is want you want. But you don't have to ...

Same here, I also much prefer desktop machines any day of the week. Right there with you Emerson!

I just built my own (second) desktop machine, since I don't need the absolute greatest machine ever conceived. Actually, I'll likely never use all of my home-built machine's power, especially all 32GiBs of my machine's RAM. The only reason I even built my latest desktop machine was because my old machine was just way too old to buy components for (well, unless maybe you're talking about just another SATA hard/SSD drive or similar).

I like your style Emerson! :p

My two cents, with Moore's Law plus inflation: I've never owned a house phone.

Refurbished that don't burden the grid (as if) rock; reduced, reuse, "recycle." (Tho recycling is mostly a corporate scam from the plastic industries... https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/89769...ld-be-recycled)

I think that those folks that have lived in China and many other countries may have slightly better information as to how life is. The OP states his opinion based on his experience and I believe him.

There is a few recycling companies where I live. They do sell all sorts of parts but almost never any from modern current state of art devices in any quantity. I have recycled quite a number of systems and at the time they paid me what I considered a good sum per pound. The systems were too old to really justify giving to Goodwill.

I have a new batch going on. I'll try Clear Linux on them and see if they are of any use to be donated. Otherwise old is just slow and takes too much electricity usually to be usable.