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Old 03-30-2004, 09:13 PM   #1
mbegovic
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building a new computer


Hi all,

I don't know what forum this should go under. I have just recently built a new pc, with the following config: Asus P4P800DX, P4 2.4/800/512, 1024MB dual-ch DDR400, Seagate SATA Barracuda 80GB, HP DVD writer 400i. I plan to get an nVidia Quadro FX graphics card soon. I also have an old PIII box that I would like to upgrade. I was thinking new Intel 865PERL, Celeron 2.4/400/128, 256MB DDR400, to go with old 10gb IDE HDD and some ancient CD-ROM for now. I also intend to eventually (relatively soon) get another 1024MB of fast RAM, a new monitor and more storage. I need a monster to run some hungry graphics app's, and I would like to set up an FTP/HTTP server on another lesser box.

I have the following questions:

a) Since I've never run any kind of a server before (and given that I would merely use it to transfer files and host a few of my very-low-traffic web sites), would the secondary machine I described work as it is, or do I need any other hardware? I wouldn't mind switching some of the hardware around between the two machines.

b) Would you guys recommend running a dedicated server, or is it possible to use the machine for everyday tasks (minor ones)?

c) Does anyone use an Intel motherboard, based on the 865 chipset, with on-board g-bit LAN and audio? I'm wondering about Linux compatibility.

Regards.
 
Old 03-31-2004, 01:28 AM   #2
Lleb_KCir
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Quote:
a) Since I've never run any kind of a server before (and given that I would merely use it to transfer files and host a few of my very-low-traffic web sites), would the secondary machine I described work as it is, or do I need any other hardware? I wouldn't mind switching some of the hardware around between the two machines.
if you are not going to be doing any heavy or real server workload, then a PII would suffices for you. most current distros of Linux run on PII or better OS, and if you are coming fom a M$ world you will see a HUGE performance jump on older systems.

RAM is always a good thing, but if you are only using it for personal use, then 512 will be more then enough.

Quote:
b) Would you guys recommend running a dedicated server, or is it possible to use the machine for everyday tasks (minor ones)?
see above answere. if you just want to play around with the server functions in Linux, then go for it, if not what else are you going to use that old system for? not worth anything now a days for games or M$ so let it be dedicated or heck use it as your test bed for learning linux.

Quote:
c) Does anyone use an Intel motherboard, based on the 865 chipset, with on-board g-bit LAN and audio? I'm wondering about Linux compatibility.
sorry not a clue here. i avoid like the plague any intel based MB.
 
Old 03-31-2004, 01:28 AM   #3
elnomadkvn
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Imho, if you have the additional budget, get a P4 instead of the Celeron (for your 'lesser box'). The Celeron, however fast it is has *less* cache. Less cache = less performance one way or another. And if you're talking server stuff, I think cache plays an important role.

A (slightly) lower end (as in not the latest) P4 would be able to beat Celerons easily...

Not sure about compatibility though, I'm newbie to Linux, after coming some ways thru Winworld...
 
Old 03-31-2004, 02:33 AM   #4
MS3FGX
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Yes, never get a Celeron.

The rule of thumb is that the rated clock speed of a Celeron is roughly equal (real-world performance wise) to a Pentium with 400 less MHz.

I.E.

A 2.4 GHz Celeron will have the real-world performance of a 2 GHz P4.
 
Old 03-31-2004, 02:46 AM   #5
J.W.
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Re: building a new computer

Quote:
Originally posted by mbegovic
Hi all,

a) Since I've never run any kind of a server before (and given that I would merely use it to transfer files and host a few of my very-low-traffic web sites), would the secondary machine I described work as it is, or do I need any other hardware? I wouldn't mind switching some of the hardware around between the two machines.

b) Would you guys recommend running a dedicated server, or is it possible to use the machine for everyday tasks (minor ones)?

c) Does anyone use an Intel motherboard, based on the 865 chipset, with on-board g-bit LAN and audio? I'm wondering about Linux compatibility.

Regards.
My 2 cents --

A: Your secondary machine -- the P3 -- sounds like it would be perfectly adequate to handle the task you describe. Definitely stick with the Pentium chip though, Celerons are lame to the point of being unusable unless you don't know any better.

B: Depending on how you define "low traffic", it may be possible ot steal some CPU cycles from the box you're using to host your site, but personally I'd leave the server alone, ie, as a deserted island. Dedicated = Good, just like a girlfriend. Seriously.

C: Can't say - I'm on an 845 and it rocks. Mobo = D845PEBT2, CPU = P4 2.4B Gz, 533 FSB, 512K L2 cache, RAM = 1024Mg DDR33/PC2700. Maybe not the latest and greatest but it works for me

-- J.W.
 
Old 03-31-2004, 10:05 AM   #6
mbegovic
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Thanks a lot, guys. The thing about the Celeron - a 2.4 costs about $100 (canadian). There is no P4 out there for less than $200. I don't want to spend more on the cpu right now, but I was thinking of upgrading to a P4 in due time, as the prices are clearly going down. The PIII Coppermine is fine, sure, but I only have 64Mb of SDRAM on that system, and PC100 SDRAM is actually a lot more expensive today then DDR, so I don't see the point of wasting money on it. Still, the only thing I'm missing in order to have an operational system is a network card. I'll probably just get that, put it together and play around for a few weeks anyway. Try out a few distros, namely debian, slack and gentoo, and try setting up the servers (which I don't have a clue about). Should be fun.

btw, Lleb_KCir, why would you avoid Intel chipsets?! (What do you use, SiS?)
 
Old 03-31-2004, 10:10 AM   #7
Lleb_KCir
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so you go with a Barton or Thouroughbred CPU, both of those have speeds that are under $100USD, and will run circles around that celeron.

heck id even go PIII over Celeron.
 
Old 03-31-2004, 10:59 AM   #8
mbegovic
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All right, I'll re-think my Celeron strategy. No rush with hardware purchases. I could find a Throughbred for just a bit more, but I'm a little reluctant about going AMD. Nothing is set in stone, however.
 
Old 03-31-2004, 12:04 PM   #9
Lleb_KCir
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biggest advantage of AMD vs intell is speed, performance, both at a lower cost then Intel.

the only reason i even own an Intel atm is the 64bit chips were not out when i picked up my P4 2.4G with the 800Mhz FSB.

that was the first time in about 5-7 years that Intel has had the supprior chipset over AMD, now with the 64bit chips, AMD is again back in the lead of power/speed/reliability/compatablity will all be built around the ADM modle now instead of the Intel.

that is not saying that Intel makes a bad chip by any stretch of the imagination. it is just over priced and slower then the AMD compatable modle.
 
Old 03-31-2004, 01:43 PM   #10
mbegovic
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I have yet to see any proof that Athlon XP can outperform P4/800. The price difference is obvious, but then again, AMD64 is certainly overpriced and Intel just came out with the Prescott 1Mb cache which isn't much more expensive than a regular P4.
 
Old 03-31-2004, 02:13 PM   #11
Lleb_KCir
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hmm lets look at something here.

A. 64bit vs 32bit.

if you have been around computers long enough to remember the 32bit revolution then that is enough said for you.

B. 32bit =max ram at 4G, 64bit =max ram at 8G.

now basicaly what that means is the architecture for the 64bit is 2X as powerful as the 32bit.

so best P4 = 32bit, AMD64 bit = roughly 2X the power of the best P4 on the market.

AMD 3400+ 64bit sells for roughly $467
P4 3.4G with 800Mhz FSB sells for roughly $459

hmm so for less then $10 you can get 2x the power and speed going AMD vs P4. now you tell me what would you pick?

as i stated the P4 800Mhz FSB is better then the best AMD 32bit chip, but now we know why AMD did not care and skiped their next upgrade to the 800Mhz FSB simply because they had a WORKING 64bit CPU out there.

also keep in mind later this year the 2nd gen 64bit chips from AMD will be released with higher FSB and what not for better performance.

anyways. hard to beat the speed/power/price of AMD over intell unless you are going to stay 32bit, then the 800Mhz FSB on the Intel chip is the way to go.
 
Old 03-31-2004, 03:44 PM   #12
mbegovic
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All right, dude. I'll let you have the last word on the AMD/Intel thing. Agree to disagree. Anyway, back to the original topic of my thread, I just bought a new 40Gb hard drive, an ethernet adapter and a CD-RW, and I'll put the PIII back together right now and try out slackware for now. I'll think more about a possible motherboard upgrade. Thanks for all the replies.

Another question. The old parts have a thick film of dust all over them. How do you guys clean your hardware (as funny as that may sound taken out of context)?
 
Old 03-31-2004, 04:10 PM   #13
Crito
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A can of compressed air will blow the dust bunnies out. They're available at most computer parts and office supply stores, like Staples.

Last edited by Crito; 03-31-2004 at 04:15 PM.
 
  


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