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I don't see the point in using distros that waste RAM with copying them self to RAM on low RAM machines. Of course you can install those distros so that they run from harddisk, but than there is no point in using them at all.
Thank you all again,
I do know what live CDs are and I have a full set of coasters comprised of some distros and some Boot repair tools I didn't like or understand. They're very modern. I managed to canabilize a dvd ROM from another oldie but goodie so I should be able to go the live CD route.
Just for kicks anyone know how to compile around 10 micro/light distros into one boot image I could put on a DVD? That sure would be a nice thing to have/share with others in my situation.
I found this tutorial: http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/558 It explains how to do it I guess. I'm a noob so it's mostly Greek to me. I'm going to try it with as many in my list as I can fit though.
The reason I want to install it to the HDD is, I want to be able to make permanant changes to the HDD. So far I haven't found a live anything that will do that. Other than fixing the boot loader.
@ jefro & TobiSGD - I appreciate the debate over the small distros. I can see both of your points of view. I was originally just looking for any distro for my machine but the small distros were suggested and I kinda liked the idea of a 30mb distro to build on. Additionally I only have a 20Gb HDD so I was hoping to keep as much free as possible. On the other hand a standard distro may be the way to go just because it is (I hesitate to say) more complete. At least from a noobs point of view it has just about everything I wold need. It's almost turn key. But, turn key won't teach me anythig. Please keep the debates coming they make me think.
Well, my Multicd attempt failed miserably. There are "supported" iso's and unsupported. My list contains both. But even with just supported I get nothing but an M-T folder. Might be easier to just burn 10 cd's. I really don't want to though.
I didn't think we were in a debate. I just kind of hijacked the thread and wanted to know his reasons. Maybe I should have said " I am curious ..." instead.
The 20G drive isn't really the problem. The ram is the issue. Live cd's that use or don't use a "TORAM" load can sometimes have a boot option to do that or not. Some live cd's also have a way to make or use a swap file or swap drive to help with low ram. A single swap partition on your drive tends to let some live cd's use that space. See it when booted with the mount command. Swap files and partitions not mounted could be mounted later.
Be careful on these cd's also. Old cd drives were never made to read burned cd's. Solution is use best quality cd's and burn at the very slowest speed you can. I tend to use those black cd's. Then have never failed on older systems. Black as in the color of plastic. Dunno why they work so well either, don't care as long as they work.
Might wish to limit this multiboot just now unless you want to fail. Kind of an advanced deal and even masters can't get them working some times. See pendrivelinux.com for some ideas on how to use grub4dos or grub and the multiboot page.
I thought it seemed like a debate. Either way it made me think. I have seen the cd's load the swap space I have on the HDD. I was wondering if they were really using it. I have a newer DVd drive that's compatable with the (1997) old machine. I'll just swap it out for the tests.I
was checking out the live cd antiX and just had put it in a small partition to test.It saw my wireless adapter right off. I am having problems with the DNS settings though. I just have to figure out how to edit the grub config so it will dual boot. It should be fairly easy to find.
As far as the very small distro's go, I am still going to try them out. I just want to find the best one for my needs. I really like Siltaz but the wifi is a pita. We'll see.
The dye used in cds and dvd is organic. If you use cheap cd/dvds they won't last as long. I use Sony only ranked #2 last time I checked. I have never had a dead disc. I'd be willing to bet the black cds work so well because black is the most resistant to ultraviolet (Decomposing) light. I'm no expert though.
I'm coming here late. I received a IBM A22M (like the one I am posting with now but the new/old IBM A22m has weaker hardware specs).
These details are just so you know where I am coming from. I installed AntiX 12 pre-final (Swift Linux is just a remastered AntiX clone). That IBM specs from AntiX forums when I posted.
I took out the Amrel hardrive that had a Lighthouse Puppy Linux 5.03 frugal install with a
Code:
pfix=noram
option in the kernel line in grub to leave the limited ram alone and just run off the hardrive. I put that hardrive into the IBM A22m with the specs above I posted in code tags and the link. Now. Just so you know. With a P3 700mhz, 128 MB ram laptop. Running any Linux Distro. I found that Iceape/SeaMonkey, Firefox, Iron Browser/Chromium/Chrome. Would open and run slow as Molasses on those specs. I have better performance using links and Dillo browser instead. Forget Flash and Java.
You skillset will have to be geared towards cli apps like moc, links, Alpine Mail. Unless you have the patience to wait for pages and apps to load slowly. Just saying. Firefox in Tiny core will run just as slow in AntiX, Swift Linux, Slitaz, etc.... on a P3 with 128MB of ram (even with a /swap partition which I run on all my old gear).
Minimum requirements for Firefox so you get a idea
Quote:
Recommended Hardware
Pentium 4 or newer processor that supports SSE2
512MB of RAM
200MB of hard drive space
Quote:
Linux
Software Requirements
Please note that Linux distributors may provide packages for your distribution which have different requirements.
Firefox will not run at all without the following libraries or packages:
GTK+ 2.10 or higher
GLib 2.12 or higher
Pango 1.14 or higher
X.Org 1.0 or higher (1.7 or higher is recommended)
libstdc++ 4.3 or higher
For optimal functionality, we recommend the following libraries or packages:
NetworkManager 0.7 or higher
DBus 1.0 or higher
HAL 0.5.8 or higher
GNOME 2.16 or higher
Swift or Antix will have the required software libraries needed. But. Hardware limits are hardware limits. In Lighthouse Puppy 5.03 which is a Puppy based on Slackware. I basically custom installed the newest versions of Seamonkey and Firefox and Java and Flash into it when the hardrive was in the Amrel Laptop. Link
You can run Puppy or Slitaz as a Full install. Which will keep it from running in ram like a live run or frugal install without the pfix=noram option (a puppy linux cheat code). Just posting this for info.
By the way. Both my IBMs have floppy drives. So I install via usb 1.1 and make a boot Plop floppy disk image. You can make a Plop boot image cd and use your usb 1.1 port to load live isos and save on cds to quit burning coasters.
@ rokytnji,
Thanks that's good information. I wasn't aware of the firefox/chrome/iceape/seamonkey attributes being similar to molassas. I was figuring on just sticking with the packaged browser but now I will have to take it into consideration when making my choice. I guess I could always just get a new browser though.
"(Swift Linux is just a remastered AntiX clone)" I am running mint 13 on an old dell with 748mb ram and a 1 gig swap and it seems to do ok. However, FF and Chrome kept crashing if I had more than a couple of tabs open. Now I know why. Is Swift similar enough to Mint that there won't be any big adjustments I would need to make in regards to how to get things done. ie same package mgr, updat mgr, same repositories, Same command lines, same hardware support, etc.... read my sig it's true because I screw up an install every day I would like to KISS and get a good grip on one distro first. But I will work 2 or 3 if that's what it takes to get my machines up and running again.
"You skillset will have to be geared towards cli apps like moc, links, Alpine Mail." - UM yea, that's not me. Yet.
Tkank you for the plop link. That solved a good sized problem there. And, the link in your sig is now at the top of my bookmarks list. I would like to add it to my sig if it's ok with you.
No problem on the sig thingy. Run it like you stole it is what we say in the biker world.
AntiX is Debian. Whether you use Debian Stable, Testing, or Unstable is up on how your /etc/apt/sources.list is setup. Just for example. Mine on this IBM A22M.
Code:
$ inxi -r
Repos: Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://liquorix.net/debian/ sid main
deb http://ftp.belnet.be/mirror/liquorix.net/debian sid main
Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/jitsi.list
deb http://download.jitsi.org/deb unstable/
I installed a new kernel since I posted yesterday also.
Code:
~$ uname -r
3.4.2-antix.2-486-smp
Newer kernel means better hardware support sometimes as well as less ram usage. In my Antix Full iso install. Booting the new kernel. Boot takes me to slim login screen in about 30 seconds. Idle after login to Icewm desktop with a conky and wicd running wireless is about 54 MB of ram. Which is pretty good on a pentium 3 computer. I also downloaded a movie called "Ink" as a .flv and it plays in mplayer just fine within ram limits (no browser open or anything else open). Cli applications like movie players and music players and text editors and such I don't expect you to just learn at the drop of a hat. It took me awhile to learn these things. I would just pick one app like vim or nano and just spend a day searching wikis on how to run them. Making text documents in my documents folder and name them "Useful Commands" and such in case I forget.
Quote:
Now I know why. Is Swift similar enough to Mint that there won't be any big adjustments I would need to make in regards to how to get things done. ie same package mgr,
Synaptic package manager and apt-get and smxi and sgfxi and inxi come installed already in a full iso.
Quote:
updat mgr,
There is no update manager. You control the update via command line via the command line as root
Code:
apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
Flash works out of the box. AntiX in my opinion has more tools than regular Linux mint. I am not familiar though with what comes totally in Linux mint Debian edition though. Same for Crunchbang Linux. I played a bit with SempliceOS which is a Italian distro with Openbox window Manager based on Debian Unstable though for a few days for a fellow AntiX forum member though (I installed it, did not run as a Live cd/USB )
Good luck with whatever you decide to use. I am off to a buddies new car museum showing/grand opening he is opening up this weekend in our 1 horse town.
I literally just installed antiX on the old box using a canabilized DVD drive. It went fairly smoothly but I ended up with about 20 broken packages. I tried to reinstall but it didn't fix them. Around 1/3 of them had to do with perl & libperl stuff, others had to do with X, and the rest was assorted. So I uninstalled (complete removal) them and reinstalled them. Bad Idea... No biggie though I forgot to add a swap space so I need to reinstall anyways. It found my old D-Ling RangeBooster-G right off the bat. It was a little tricky to configure it though. I used the low RAM Vespa(?)option and it went Sans icons which I'm not too keen on. I did like that it didn't have to connect to the internet too. It seems fairly straight forward and somewhat intuative. I'll probably end up stripping it down and installing just what I would use on it. There are sooo many things I have no clue how to use. Nor do I @ this time have the inclination. I won't be developing or programming any time soon. It is a nice distro and if I were more knowledgable (sp?) I am sure I would like it a lot. antiX is definitely in the running.
Thanks Rok and if you make it to Vegas Sept 23rd?-27th? I don't remember when, let me know. I'll be there.
Sorry to hear about the troubles. I md5sum check all downloaded isos before doing a install.
I won't be in Vegas, (Funds are tied up in Central A/C repairs and House). I have 2 relatives that live in Phoenix Az. The only time I go there is when they need help. I don't see traveling outside of TX in my near future but ya never know.
With me. I have found necessity is the mother of invention. If I want a custom chopper or a computer that does all that I want. With the limited funds I have. I put my nose to the grind stone and roll up my sleeves. To each his own though.
I don't see the point in using distros that waste RAM with copying them self to RAM on low RAM machines. Of course you can install those distros so that they run from harddisk, but than there is no point in using them at all.
What twaddle. Like saying you can't have your cake and eat it!
TinyCore is blazingly fast on an older machine and I consider distro's like these to be a bonus when they allow you to install to the harddrive. TC also can be remastered too very easily which gives it another tick in my book.
OpenBSD is another good choice for a low-end PC as is NetBSD.
I'm still trying to get TC to work off a thumb drive. I may have to burn it. I just need certain options and abilities that I thought would be available in any distro but, some are harder to accomplish in one distro or another. What I have seen in TC looks apealing. I hope the wifi is plug and play and the mount options allow other partitions(ie OSs) to be mounted for inspection through a GUI. I'm also having trouble getting DSL to work on a thumb drive. We'll see they'll have their chance.
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