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-   -   Ahh..you crazy kids and your Linux.Cut your hair and get a job. (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/ahh-you-crazy-kids-and-your-linux-cut-your-hair-and-get-a-job-4175505152/)

stratotak 05-15-2014 10:16 PM

Ahh..you crazy kids and your Linux.Cut your hair and get a job.
 
I guess i have gotten to old for Linux.I just dont have the patience for Linux anymore.Which Is odd because Linux has gotten more user friendly since I first started messing with it.
When I first tried Linux it was around 2002 or so. I had dial up back then so I couldnt download any distros. So I would buy them off Ebay. Started with Mandrake.Then Slackware,Gentoo,RedHat.

I was in my 20's and setting there for hours trying to figure out hot to get such and such to work was like a challenge to me.Like I said guess Im getting to old because what was once a challenge to over come is now just down right annoying to me today.

Then got broadband in 2005 and over the years have tried just about every mainstream Linux always coming back to Debian.

Havent used Debain since last year.Decided to come back about 3-4 days ago.Had like 4 issues which I solved. Was a little annoyed but not "through this crap In the corner" annoyed.
Latest problem is Chrome crashing X and only fix I have found was to disable Chrome hardware acceleration.
Thats when I realized Im just not into Linux that much anymore.
Yeah sure windows has problems but they are usually solved with a driver update or you didnt have the latest Netframework or something.At most its might involve going into registry to edit something.

Linux is cool.Its like being 18 and having a cool 1969 Mustang that breaks down every other week and you have to fix it.
Today..I just dont have the patience to be fixing Linux all the time and tracking down problems and solutions.

rokytnji 05-15-2014 10:20 PM

Alrighty Then.

Randicus Draco Albus 05-15-2014 11:14 PM

After a dozen years experience, including Gentoo and Slackware, one would figure few things would be too onerous for you to configure, especially with a system as easy to configure as Debian.:confused:

sundialsvcs 05-16-2014 12:06 AM

"And just who are you callin' a 'kid,' kid?!?!" ;) (koff, koff ...)

Seriously, though ... you actually won't "get barbequed" for expressing opinions like that. You do, in fact, bring up many quite-valid points ... all of which just happen to demonstrate how good the people who struggle to tame this technology (Microsoft .. Apple .. "distro" writers) are at the very-crazy thing that they struggle every day to do. ("They make it look easy, all of them," even though this is "outrageously difficult." And yes, you betcha, I just praised Redmond. And Cupertino.)

"Is Linux right for you?" He*l, only you can decide. And, whatever you decide is Valid. For you. Period. So there. No objections. At all.

However, I would encourage you not to give up on Linux quite yet. Install a virtual-machine monitor (splurge ... a commercial one ...) on your existing war-horse, and give this technology a serious try. At first, you will feel that you are "taking a sip from the fire-hose." H-o-w-e-v-e-r ... if you do elect to persevere, I do promise you that it will be worth it.

Full disclosure ... I proudly hearken from the now-dying days when computers were serious fun, (that no one else, at the time, could fully understand ...), "and so, we did it anyway." :) Linux will still bring you that. (And, by doing so, it will cast an entirely-different light upon what both Microsoft and Apple have been doing for all these years.)

And so I say to thee ... (koff, koff) ... "dive in, kid!" ;) Did you really put on that-there swim suit to keep it dry?!?! :D Does the Badge of Honor h-a-c-k-e-r mean anything to you, or have you been "assimilated?" ;)

Oh dear, I seem to have dropped my gauntlet ... would you kindly pick it up for me?

C'mon in ... the water's fine ...

stratotak 05-16-2014 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus (Post 5171751)
After a dozen years experience, including Gentoo and Slackware, one would figure few things would be too onerous for you to configure, especially with a system as easy to configure as Debian.:confused:

It doesnt have anything to do with "easy to configure" it has to do with I dont feel like spending time hunting down how to fix a issue(s) anymore. I dont have anyhting to prove anymore.That Im smarter than the average windows user becasue I can use Linux.
If debian is so easy to configure you tell me how to fix Chrome crashing X.Not a temp fix like I had to do which is disable hardware accleration. Heres my post about it.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...-x-4175505081/

kooru 05-16-2014 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratotak (Post 5171734)
Linux is cool.Its like being 18 and having a cool 1969 Mustang that breaks down every other week and you have to fix it.
Today..I just dont have the patience to be fixing Linux all the time and tracking down problems and solutions.

Because you're another kind of person, 40 years old, minivan, wife and kids :D
Joking apart, I can understand you but using Linux is not mandatory. If despite your dedication, your tests, this forum, you have always some problems with your distro and your time (or your patience) flies away, then you shouldn't use it.
Or better, you can run it on a virtual machine, as said by sundialsvcs.
Take care ;)

plisken 05-16-2014 05:45 AM

You know what they say...

Once you go Mac, you'll never go back!

Randicus Draco Albus 05-16-2014 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratotak (Post 5171819)
If debian is so easy to configure you tell me how to fix Chrome crashing X.Not a temp fix like I had to do which is disable hardware accleration.

Are you sure it is a problem with the system? There are quite a few Debian users using Google's browser (why I do not know) without it crashing X.
From that thread:
Quote:

That gets rid of X crash's but then when I watch Youtube videos after a bit sound gets all crackly. Doesnt happen in Iceweasel.
Again, looks like a Chrome issue. And yes, configuration is a little more involved with Testing.

allend 05-16-2014 07:15 AM

If you do not know what is wrong with Windows, keep using it.
Quote:

Yeah sure windows has problems but they are usually solved with a driver update or you didnt have the latest Netframework or something.At most its might involve going into registry to edit something.
If only :(

sundialsvcs 05-16-2014 07:28 AM

"Of course, what you say about not wanting to deal with [hardware] issues anymore is entirely true," he said, typing furiously on his Macbook Pro ... :D

You will quickly learn far more about the "guts" of your computer than you ever otherwise could have learned ... and, yes, you will run into the law of Diminishing Returns, a.k.a. "I just donwanna :eek: with this, anymore!"

So you go buy a Mac, put a case-sensitive filesystem on it, and ... there you go. Unless one day you do need to configure a Linux server, which you will probably do exactly once and then "clone" onto identical copies of hardware.

It's worth doing ... I'm glad I did it ... I'm glad that I basically don't have to do that anymore. Instead, I hire people who do.

fogpipe 05-16-2014 07:42 AM

Honestly, my predominant reason for using linux is probably that im lazy. I have been using the same interface (not a DE) for the past 10 years or so and what i look for in a linux distro is that you install it and forget it. If you think using windows will banish 3rd party incompatibilities i wish you luck, but i think you are going to be dissapointed.

jamison20000e 05-16-2014 07:49 AM

Quote:

solved with a driver update
LOL Or, $lowed down and more likely made more in$ecure? Way back when I had winblow$ (couldn't try a different one) I had problem$ that didn't get fixed not to mention the chain$! $ave kids, don't buy a $mac.

Browser, browser, browser, browser, browser, browser,,,

ericson007 05-16-2014 08:59 AM

Hmm. Great points and valid as before has been stated.

I used chrome ages ago, not on debian, but it worked. But do you really want to be using chrome coming from big brother, sure firefox is heading down the tubes too, but at least it is not a nightmare to get going.

Hopefully iceweasel gets rid of that jingles too.

But don't worry mate, i understand. So my solution was just stop fighting and putting money into the pockets of nvidea and amd.

They want me to buy the latest and greatest, then they can spend some money on getting their drivers going.

Great tag for your thread topic!!!

replica9000 05-16-2014 09:26 AM

I've always found it easier to diagnose problems in Linux compared to Windows.

ericson007 05-16-2014 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by replica9000 (Post 5172025)
I've always found it easier to diagnose problems in Linux compared to Windows.

I agree for server 100%
Desktop... 50/50

Different things and tastes but some people have different needs, windows and linux are two different beasts

jamison20000e 05-16-2014 10:20 AM

I think off the bat it is easier in the main Linux distros but as you add more and more to it 50/50 sounds about right?

replica9000 05-16-2014 10:29 AM

I've never found the BSOD on Windows all that helpful when something small takes down the whole system.

Habitual 05-16-2014 10:36 AM

Keep your hair and your sanity, try Slackware.

suicidaleggroll 05-16-2014 10:58 AM

Funny, I have the exact opposite experience as the OP. Windows is ALWAYS more difficult to set up and keep running than Linux in my experience. Sure they both have their problems, but Linux is much more open about what's going on, while Windows tries to hide it, which makes searching for and fixing the problem infinitely harder. The last FOUR (4) Windows systems I've set up have failed out of the box and needed registry hacks to get them going, not so with Linux.

jamison20000e 05-16-2014 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by replica9000 (Post 5172071)
... when something small takes down the whole system.

And, what do we use to rescue either OS:Pengy: Live... ;)

rtmistler 05-16-2014 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratotak (Post 5171734)
Linux is cool.Its like being 18 and having a cool 1969 Mustang that breaks down every other week and you have to fix it.
Today..I just dont have the patience to be fixing Linux all the time and tracking down problems and solutions.

Based on your timetable and age range you listed, you're younger than me. I do not view myself as too old for stuff. But perhaps that's just you coining a phrase.

My other thinking is from what you originally wrote, you seem to be mentioning that you're trying distro after distro. Yeah ... there are a LOT of them. Why try everything you can? Why try something the minute it's released? If you go through a search phase, accept the fact that there will be some tuning until you get what you want; or determine that a distro is not one that you'd prefer and try another. But end your search phase and just stay with one distribution for a while. What really is the point of trying distro after distro? I have work, which is based on Linux; the dev station is Linux as are the targets; on the targets variation is a lot when we bring up a new board, but once that's done we do very little and concentrate on the applications. Changing the dev station is risky; I actually bring up an entire new computer before I change the distribution; too much risk that tools may not work. For home, I use one distro for a pretty long time, eventually try something new; that led me to MINT's newest release, 16 - I tried it via LiveUSB; gave it a week or more to convince myself that I wanted that more than Ubuntu 10.04; and so I swapped over permanently.

I suppose what I should also relate is that since it was a LiveUSB, I could install stuff like Truecrypt and set up Firefox with my bookmarks and add-ons, pretty much the way I had then on Ubuntu. Therefore when I did make the swap permanently, I knew what elements I needed to resolve or data I needed to save to maintain my current levels of usage.

cynwulf 05-16-2014 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratotak (Post 5171819)
If debian is so easy to configure you tell me how to fix Chrome crashing X.

You are running testing. If you're not prepared to fix problems like that, don't run testing. It's really that simple. I don't understand the Debian culture of users running testing/unstable and then complaining vocally when stuff breaks.

Run the stable distribution with backports if necessary and install the fglrx driver from the repos if you need it.

Or install the kernel firmware (firmware-linux-nonfree) for the radeon driver and use that instead of running a proprietary driver.

If you installed the driver from the fglrx/catalyst installer from AMD's website, then that's probably why fglrx is broken. Particularly with testing, it gets so many updates that the blob drivers installed from outside the Debian repositories will break (because they get clobbered) and you will have to reinstall them - especially when the kernel is upgraded - the packages from the repositories don't have this problem.

And even if installed from the repositories - it's testing and this would not be the first time the proprietary video drivers have been broken.

szboardstretcher 05-16-2014 11:51 AM

There are a few people I have noticed that use Testing/Rawhide or other testing branches of various distros -- seemingly not understanding that they are literally for 'testing' features and packaging and aren't meant for daily use unless you are a developer or qa person. I think it has to do with the want of people to be using the 'latest' version, bleeding edge as it were, and not understanding the difference between bleeding edge stable and development testing.

If you want bleeding edge, go for a rolling distro. They tend to keep packages up to date with upstream. Avoid 'testing' at all costs unless you are a developer or qa person.

cynwulf 05-16-2014 12:12 PM

There is this myth that Debian testing is a "stable" distro usable by anyone who wants newer software. Many of the users who run testing, probably need a few backported packages and a newer kernel at most, but instead upgrade to a semi rolling system and get a constant stream of everything and the kitchen sink updated on a daily basis. They do this usually on the advice of others or because they do not want to take the time to research into backports, or creating their own backports. There are few people who absolutely have to run testing.

What is/not a problem depends on your perspective. fglrx breaking was never a problem for me - I'd just read the errors, find out what packages were involved, purge and reinstall and just fiddle around until I'd solved it. If it turned out there was a bug or the usual ABI breakage due to a new xserver, I'd just downgrade the xserver or purge fglrx and run radeon for a while. To me that was just the normal ups and downs of running testing/unstable, to some it's something they find upsetting.

replica9000 05-16-2014 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynwulf (Post 5172156)
There is this myth that Debian testing is a "stable" distro usable by anyone who wants newer software. Many of the users who run testing, probably need a few backported packages and a newer kernel at most, but instead upgrade to a semi rolling system and get a constant stream of everything and the kitchen sink updated on a daily basis. They do this usually on the advice of others or because they do not want to take the time to research into backports, or creating their own backports. There are few people who absolutely have to run testing.

What is/not a problem depends on your perspective. fglrx breaking was never a problem for me - I'd just read the errors, find out what packages were involved, purge and reinstall and just fiddle around until I'd solved it. If it turned out there was a bug or the usual ABI breakage due to a new xserver, I'd just downgrade the xserver or purge fglrx and run radeon for a while. To me that was just the normal ups and downs of running testing/unstable, to some it's something they find upsetting.

FGLRX made me switch to nvidia.

schneidz 05-16-2014 12:26 PM

are you having problems with chrome or chromium ?

dugan 05-16-2014 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratotak (Post 5171819)
If debian is so easy to configure you tell me how to fix Chrome crashing X.Not a temp fix like I had to do which is disable hardware accleration. Heres my post about it.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...-x-4175505081/

If I had that problem and I didn't want to spend time fixing it, then I would switch to another browser, not to another OS.

enorbet 05-16-2014 03:58 PM

Greetz
I am truly confused and disagree entirely with so-called "valid points". I've used multiple operating systems for decades, including Windows, and the main reason I still even have multiboot on my main box is to keep in touch with the problems in Windows that is part of what keeps me employed. I hate having to boot Windows on my own box because of all the 3rd party crap I have to run and fixing problems often makes me want to claw out my eyes.

My main OpSys, Slackware, has been through several upgrades, starting with v 11.1 and is now 14.0, over 8 years and transferred through several hard drives and motherboards and I've spent almost zero time fixing anything on it. I don't have to deal with wiping and reinstalling every year or two just to get speed and stability back nor bi-weekly Virus and Malware scans.

Switching to windows now is orders of magnitude worse than the guy who swam halfway across the ocean, decided he couldn't make it, and swam back.

Edit - Also, if it weren't for "long hairs" both gainfully employed and working toward that, there wouldn't even be PCs let alone Windows and Macs.

metaschima 05-16-2014 04:10 PM

My "Mustang" (I would never buy one) hasn't broken down yet, and if it does I know exactly how to fix it or if I don't then I'll use the internet to find a fix. I have yet to find a problem without a solution.

I cut my hair regularly and will soon have a job ;)

cynwulf 05-16-2014 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by replica9000 (Post 5172159)
FGLRX made me switch to nvidia.

After years of faffing with the proprietary drivers, I now just use the FOSS drivers on older hardware, Radeon HD 3xxx, and all I can do is relate my own experiences: it works. I am not playing proprietary games of course, nor do I use my computer to watch TV, but kwin compositing effects work, 2D rendering is very good - no problems, no jerky scrolling, glitches, no crashes, nothing.

With the nvidia driver on my old PC, 2D performance was crap and I had to run a shell script when X started to apply some settings to nvidia-settings to get half decent performance.

I haven't used fglrx for over two years, but I think they dropped support for my GPU at some point anyway - either way don't care and don't want to deal with fglrx.

When all is said and done, high end AMD/Nvidia graphics hardware is designed for windows games...

replica9000 05-17-2014 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynwulf (Post 5172280)
After years of faffing with the proprietary drivers, I now just use the FOSS drivers on older hardware, Radeon HD 3xxx, and all I can do is relate my own experiences: it works. I am not playing proprietary games of course, nor do I use my computer to watch TV, but kwin compositing effects work, 2D rendering is very good - no problems, no jerky scrolling, glitches, no crashes, nothing.

With the nvidia driver on my old PC, 2D performance was crap and I had to run a shell script when X started to apply some settings to nvidia-settings to get half decent performance.

I haven't used fglrx for over two years, but I think they dropped support for my GPU at some point anyway - either way don't care and don't want to deal with fglrx.

When all is said and done, high end AMD/Nvidia graphics hardware is designed for windows games...

The cards I have I guess are mid grade (9800GT/GTS450/GTX550). I don't really do gaming other than emulators for the old 8/16bit games. Since I've switched to nvidia, everything just works. I upgrade packages, let dkms do it's thing, and still working.

With fglrx, I feared upgrades. Always either a compatibility with my xorg.conf, or xorg itself. When it did work, there were graphics glitches and somethings that couldn't be rendered (composite + video = blue box). At the time, I don't think the FOSS drivers worked with the HD3XXX/HD4XXX series. They do work well with my Xpress 200M though.

With Steam supporting Linux, high end cards may actually be useful for gaming in the future.

Randicus Draco Albus 05-17-2014 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by replica9000 (Post 5172475)
With Steam supporting Linux, high end cards may actually be useful for gaming in the future.

We can hope. It would be nice if Steam worked perfectly. Then bazillions of people would stop littering the internet with pleas for help to get Steam working on Linux systems.

jamison20000e 05-17-2014 04:55 AM

"Bazillions?"

Eireannach 05-17-2014 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratotak (Post 5171734)
Today..I just dont have the patience to be fixing Linux all the time and tracking down problems and solutions.

Hi stratotak,

I can sympathise with you - although I reckon I am a good bit older :D . Why not just run Debian stable ? Is new and shiny always better ?

If you feel you really must have testing then go with a Debian based semi-rolling distro e.g SolydXK and let someone else do the "fixing" for you.

enorbet 05-17-2014 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus (Post 5172533)
We can hope. It would be nice if Steam worked perfectly. Then bazillions of people would stop littering the internet with pleas for help to get Steam working on Linux systems.

Steam runs fine on Linux. Some "windows-only" games require different versions of wine with differing settings and that all but requires PlayOnLinux. I have DX-11 games working with those on Linux and the low-latency is unmatchable in Windows. With IBM spending yet another billion dollars on Linux and Steam offering incentives, etc etc, it's only a matter of time before even the die hards will have to admit that Linux is just better, if you have even a little motivation to tweak and configure.

The only remaining area that is probably still a few years away in parity is multi-media recording/editing.

ondoho 05-17-2014 02:10 PM

i think once you got it figured out, most systems are pretty stable.
it's when you start tweaking or install something NEW that needs some extra 4d accel, when things start getting messy and frustrating.

i have come to accept my setup, what i can and cannot do with it, and although it's arolling distro, i find it stable enough. i definitely spend the biggest amount of time on my computer on entertainment and projects.
but that doesn't mean i want to go back to windows.
hell, no.
i'm almost completely in control of my computer and for the world i wouldn't want to give that up.

sometimes i feel like setting up a new system, just for the heck of it, but then i ask myself: why? wouldn't you rather... i don't know ... create that piece of ambient music you always wanted to, or design a web page, or help others...

if something's not new any more, it doesn't mean you're getting old.

enorbet 05-17-2014 09:32 PM

Besides.... getting old is an important cert! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Pryor as Mudbone
Old Fool? Ain't no such thing. You don't get to be old bein' no fool. Lotta young smartass deader than shit!


Shadow_7 05-17-2014 11:18 PM

I'm a bit old too, but I haven't forgotten why I started using linux. Yes linux is a bit tedious, but in linux you start bare bones and add what you use. In windows you start with everything and spend a lifetime trying to uninstall 99% of it. Only to have windows reinstall it. I like knowing what my system is doing. Even if twenty plus years later, I'm still configuring audio from the command line.

m.a.l.'s pa 05-18-2014 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratotak (Post 5171734)
Linux is cool.Its like being 18 and having a cool 1969 Mustang that breaks down every other week and you have to fix it.
Today..I just dont have the patience to be fixing Linux all the time and tracking down problems and solutions.

That sort of thing doesn't happen here -- especially not with Debian Stable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratotak (Post 5171734)
I guess i have gotten to old for Linux [...] When I first tried Linux it was around 2002 or so [...] I was in my 20's

Around 2002, my 20s had been long gone for quite awhile already. Most of my hair, too. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynwulf (Post 5172135)
You are running testing.

Oh, I see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugan (Post 5172195)
If I had that problem and I didn't want to spend time fixing it, then I would switch to another browser, not to another OS.

+1

enine 05-22-2014 07:22 AM

The OP is the reason I switched to Linux. I grew tired of fixing Windows and trying to chase down updates for everything.
Though I would have to admit if Linux broke I probably wouldn't know how to fix it since I've never gotten any practice at it.

replica9000 05-22-2014 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enine (Post 5175154)
The OP is the reason I switched to Linux. I grew tired of fixing Windows and trying to chase down updates for everything.
Though I would have to admit if Linux broke I probably wouldn't know how to fix it since I've never gotten any practice at it.

Install Linux in a VM and experiment.

enine 05-22-2014 11:32 AM

I actually have several VM's but those are usually because I want to learn something else, I'll create one and install a new app I want to experiment wit. I learn a lot installing new stuff and getting it working.
My main point was that I've never really had to fix anything as it never breaks (unlike Windows)

nyc_rr 05-24-2014 04:59 PM

I'm 46 years old and I've been using linux for years and I have written several shell scripts for common tasks on my system. It's not an age thing, it's a determination thing and a willingness to learn as much as possible.

♫♫♫ "I don't want to grow up, I'm a linux R' us kid" ♫♫♫

rob.rice 05-25-2014 09:41 PM

sounds like a crome problem to me
honestly dude your blaming a the faults of a beta program on linux
dump crome problem solved

brianL 05-26-2014 07:10 AM

Just turned 69, and still interested in learning. And still able to do so (or is that wishful thinking? :) ).

sycamorex 05-26-2014 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianL (Post 5177092)
Just turned 69, and still interested in learning. And still able to do so (or is that wishful thinking? :) ).

Belated happy birthday!

brianL 05-26-2014 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamorex (Post 5177094)
Belated happy birthday!

Thanks.

rokytnji 05-26-2014 05:49 PM

Happy Birthday from me also.

Some birthday Music for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdUl...ABF6E2&index=3 Edit: explicit language warning.

Quote:

Alrighty Then
was my reply in this thread. It stands for whatever trips your trigger. I don't care.
By the way. We both are older in age than the OP. But younger in heart and mind.

Germany_chris 05-27-2014 03:08 AM

I'd like to thank everyone in here for reminding me that I'm not old!

brianL 05-27-2014 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokytnji (Post 5177278)
Happy Birthday from me also.

Thanks.


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