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View Poll Results: Should gaming companies make their games compatible with Linux (finally)?
all linux games(or windows games written for linux) must not be freely downloadable ... not even "crippled" and "short demos" ones(probably some windows games are like that) but introductory "previews" are ok(like watching good short movies) ... you have to make and advertise them , let them stand out like diablo and counter-strike as these two are the only one that i know(not only heard of) and therefore i bought for my kids back then ...
ofcause ... parents who only use linux at homes are the most reliable ...
but probably we may also see more people start "conventionally" selling(charging) their application softwares or even linux systems ...
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[edit ::]ok , have finished "updating" a bit of things here and there in my linux(and some more to go) ...
probably my point is linux gamers like you who can(or will) definately purhase linux games even if there are windows(or mac) alternatives are vital for linux ... even more so than linux distros packagers and linux systems and applications developers ...
Rogerbennet. I can see and respect that point of view. I guess I've always just taken the viewpoint of Field of Dreams. Remember the famous quote from that movie, "If you build it, they will come"?
In my opinion, people aren't going to move into a town if there aren't any houses available to buy.
I guess, overall, I'm just tired of seeing articles saying "Linux can do whatever Windows and Mac can... well, except for high-end gaming".
And I know it will happen someday, just like it did with Mac. It took a while. I'm just trying to get a feel for the interest level here, and to raise awareness of those willing to pay for houses... er, I mean applications as long as they're made available.
I think one possible solution to getting (mainstream) games onto Linux, would be a simple matter for the game manufacturers. Advertise on any of the Linux forums, asking for programmers to work alongside windows programmers and work on the same game BUT write it for Linux. Once the Linux version is available, then forget about package managers and just sell the game in tar files.
I am sure that there would be plenty of people willing to help produce games for Linux, for no other reward than 'having their name in lights!'
you have to pay for them as handsomely as how you pay for your windows productions ... as linux guys are notorious in only interested in re/enhancing their vi and their shells ...
//btw ... other than counter strike and diablo i had left out warcraft ...
I guess, overall, I'm just tired of seeing articles saying "Linux can do whatever Windows and Mac can... well, except for high-end gaming".
And I know it will happen someday, just like it did with Mac. It took a while.
Since when did Mac got into "mainstream" gaming? It is still horrible, in my honest opinion. Indeed, not as bad as Linux, but far from being any noticeable for serious gamers.
Games for Mac have been around, well, forever. Specially games for children, that you get as a freebie on McDonald's and places like that, even before OSX came out.
And now that you can actually install Windows on the super-overpriced-and-over-hyped Intel/Mac computers, the chances of any developer creating games for Mac will be reduced by some level. They will just stick with Windows and hope that Mac'ers will install Windows on their machines anyway.
There are, however, two things that developers may consider for Mac that they won't in Linux: The Mac-community usually don't mind paying for software (like people complaining about Cedega) and it is far easier to develop for Mac than it is for Linux because it follows a more standardized way of doing things.
>> "... two things that developers may consider for Mac that they won't in Linux: The Mac-community usually don't mind paying for software (like people complaining about Cedega)"
this can be wrong ... sounds like a "prejudice" to me ... i believe they can even charge higher than windows alternatives for reason that can be commercially valid ...
>> "... it is far easier to develop for Mac than it is for Linux because it follows a more standardized way of doing things."
since linux gamers are going to pay for it then i think probably they dont mind the trouble in meeting the requirements in terms of hardwares and softwares ... infact things can only get better if there are more "windows" games written for linux ...
btw ...
>> "Games for Mac have been around, well, forever. Specially games for children, that you get as a freebie on McDonald's and places like that, even before OSX came out."
if that happen to linux one day then what do you call that ... ?? a miracle ... ^_^
Macs seem to be on the horizon for mainstream gaming, if id softwares Tech 5 demo is anything to go by. Like linux, i'm sure it'll only take a few "killer apps" to be ported and it'll start attracting huge attention.
It'd be very difficult to get a linux community to develop a game alongside a commercial windows version. Out-House programmers earned that nickname for a reason, and without good QA I can't imagine a developer or publisher who'd want anything to do with a linux port. Nor can I imagine a developer or publisher willing to share the source code to their latest game FOR FREE to the world at large - including to their direct competitors in the marketplace.
Plus most programmers willing to do it "just to get their name in lights" are going to struggle in the games industry, where many programmers - and indeed developers in general can be the unsung heroes - people with the wrong/shallow motivations are going to get easily demotivated.
The idea of developing a game in tandem with a community is good in theory, but a lack of ownership implies a lack of royalties which makes commercial games development very difficult indeed. Free sequels and alternatives could very quickly flood the market.
Community development of games might work if you scale up the workforce massively, and can keep the development organized, but we are talking about needing hundreds of developers all sharing a common goal to get a project completed in a timely fashion. It'd be an interesting project to be a part of, but I suspect the future of linux gaming lies in traditional games developers and publishers filling a market that can only be created by linux users buying lots of games.
is it possible to do commercial linux games like how people are writing windows games ... ?? "strict" ownerships(implying royalties ??) of linux games by developers/companies ... no downloadable source codes no nothing , just commecially available good linux games from the shops ... implying no(or impossible to have) "free sequels and alternatives" ...
i think many people just want a "pure" linux solutions that can do without windows systems(as they are going to purchase windows games anyway , expensively or not) ... "maintaining" both linux and windows systems only to find out that they are actually going back and forth within the same thing seems unnecessarily repetitive and "dumb" ...
is it possible to do commercial linux games like how people are writing windows games ... ??
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Well, its technically feasible, but my argument is that it isn't commercially possible. You can target a closed-source game for any platform, as long as you are mindful of its capabilities and your development budget.
Another option, raised by Teabag(above) was for linux-community teams to work alongside commercial developers, which is difficult to implement because the developer/publisher want to work closed source to gain a competitive edge.
The third way is just good old open source game development, but sourceforge (for example) isn't delivering the goods as far as games are concerned and I suspect it'll be a long time before a "great" free linux game becomes available.
I don't understand what you mean by a "pure" linux system though? what does that refer to?
I am now getting curious just how big the linux games market is, and how many units you could expect to ship - especially with respect to an earlier comment about the south-east-asia territories.
However, this thread is deviating from the poll it started out as - and the results (few as they are) show most people in support of publishers targeting linux for mainstream games. I've publicly gone on the record saying I voted 'no' - are there any 'yes' voters willing to share why they think so?
I've publicly gone on the record saying I voted 'no' - are there any 'yes' voters willing to share why they think so?
I voted yes for the most obvious reason, I want to be able to play great (windows) games on my linux box, running as a linux native app. Until then I have to keep switching to windows to do that.
That does not mean linux will make a good market, but the poll did not ask that. It just asked if developers should target the linux platform and, from an end user perspective who wants everthing including the pie with the cherry on top, yes. I want great games on linux.
I also agree with the argument for pure linux systems. If I can do everything I want on linux, I will say goodbye to Microsoft. However I am a novice user, so anything beyond an Out of the Box (OOB) experience will have me rebooting to windows everytime. I am not up to troubleshooting (wastes time, too technical, etc), and tar is still beyond me. When that can be fixed, I'll switch. Until then linux is just an experiment.
BTW: A few great games for linux, without interface issues, etc, would be a great improvement to the OOB experience, and make it more likely for me spend money on linux games.
Some retail stores just don't have Linux regardless. I remember seeing Best Buy with Suse 10.0 or 10.1, and even Linspire. Now they ONLY have WINDOWS Vista. Only. No linux whatsoever!
Companies know or should know that Linux isn't some home based little hobby of a system that only a selected few care to toy around with.
It's far more advanced than some home project. They should make Windows and Linux, or Windows, Mac and Linux.
Originally posted by JBailey742
Some retail stores just don't have Linux regardless. I remember seeing Best Buy with Suse 10.0 or 10.1, and even Linspire. Now they ONLY have WINDOWS Vista. Only. No linux whatsoever!
I saw the same thing at a CompUSA once. It was Suse 10.1 hiding on a top shelf. The next time I went it was gone and I haven't another Linux in that store since then.
Quote:
Originally posted by evoc
every company should develop their games for linux...
Let's make up a hypothetical scenario. Let's pretend I'm a game software company and you're a Linux gamer. I've listened to the demand and decided to port my game to Linux. First I consider how much it already costs to make it for Windows. I'll say $10 per copy and it sells for $20. It sells really well because there are a lot of Windows gamers. Now I need to either hire or train people to write the game engine to work in *nix. If I already have a Mac port it won't be as difficult and with open source code and utilities that I can use in the engine it becomes even less difficult. Now the port is finished and released on the market. I'll say it cost only $6 to make each copy and will sell for $15.
Now, here on the forum it's already been mentioned that ~80% of all desktop computers run Windows and it's a good bet that most of them are gamers. It's also been mentioned that Linux desktop share is increasing to around 10% but how many of them are gamers interested in my particular game? I've released 1,000,000 copies of my Linux port in game stores around the world. If I need to sell 500,000 copies to begin making a profit on it, how likely is it?
Now let's say I only sold 250,000 and now my annual profits are down. I have to make up for it so I scrap the Linux port idea and either raise the price of the Windows version or reduce the cost of the next product by reducing features. End of hypothetical scenario.
So you see, there would be a lot of risk to the company and if the company suffered and had to recover the consumers will be the ones who pay and suffer most. I can think of only one way it would work - if both Windows and Linux versions were bundled together in the same box but then instead of costing only $20 it might cost $30 or $40. For one company it might work while for another it might be a total flop. That's how I see it and that's why I said no.
Eveything depends on "normal" xorg. And i really find xorg one of the most unstable and buggy software around. Second goes alsa. If somebody wrote an engine for linux, they would like to be sure that this engine could be used at least for several games (like ut3 engine was sold to lots of other games), but now with constantly changing X it's not the case yet.
Last edited by Alien_Hominid; 12-13-2007 at 01:23 PM.
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