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-   -   Lobbying Game Makers? (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-games-33/lobbying-game-makers-196929/)

pandasuit 06-23-2004 04:01 PM

Lobbying Game Makers?
 
Has there ever been an effort to lobby game developing companies to release Linux versions of their games? I am kind of assuming something like this must have happened at some point or is happening now.

There are sites and groups dedicated to convincing governments and large corporations and whoever to use Linux but is there a group or site dedicated to getting new games released for Linux?

I am one of those people who still has a desktop machine with Windows on it for the sole reason of gaming. All my other machines run Linux now (except the one my fiance uses as she is stubborn and plays some games on it too).

I am sure I do not understand all of the issues here (I know there is a problem getting good video card drivers too) but is there somewhere that I can read up on the issues?

I have googled and found some articles related to this but they have all been out of date and/or point to no longer existing pages.

I have seen a few threads and such about not running servers for games that we dont have clients for. I dont personally think that will work as you wont convince everyone to stop but I do think we could approach companies and find out what it will take for them to port to Linux. What do they need from us? It seems unlikely that we will get what we want unless they get what they want.

320mb 06-24-2004 12:11 AM

Well all you have to do is look at what happened to the commercial version of "tux racer" ----not enough people purchased it to make it worth their investment........and in the end the freeloaders whined and cried on the tux racer forum for the source code of the commercial version to be released. The people at Sunspire Studios don't even answer email's I send, because I would like to get a Level editor for the copy that I bought. Companies just won't invest money in Linux if people don't buy the games.

pandasuit 06-24-2004 04:44 AM

That does make sense. I do have a bias in my head that doesn't equate Linux with purchased software. Part of the reason I love Linux so much is that I dont have to pay for it or the common software I run. Yet paying for games for Windows seems quite natural.

So it is a perception issue. It does suggest that Linux users are going to need a paradigm shift before they get the software they want on the Linux desktop (note that I am specifying Linux "desktop" users).

The next logical question (assuming I am right about the paradigm shift) is to ask what can we do to cause this shift and what issues are their involved.

It is true that when I talk to someone who is interested in that "strange" alternative OS I use I usually use the "access to tons of free (as in beer) software" argument as one reason to use Linux. Maybe we are (I am) setting these new Linux converts up with the idea that they dont need to buy comercial software...that all their software needs will be supplied by the busy hands of unpaid hackers.

Thoughts?


This is kindof another topic but maybe all I need is some console from Sony (or other non-Microsoft group) that runs the kind of games I like with the controls I like (more specifically games like Neverwinter Nights and Battlefield Vietnam and controls like mouse and keyboard). I hate using a controller for those types of games. I am interested to see how well the Nintendo DS's touchpad performs with mouse like duties in a serious FPS game. Maybe I need to do my gaming off the PC. It definately seems like that is the way things will go eventually. My major problem with this is that console games tend to be dumbed down compared to PC games. So game companies for this hypothetical new platform need to be careful to appeal to PC gamers.

Think of the overhead and annoyance you could save by dumping that Windows box (or dual boot install).


Well anyways...this is just me prattling on...I hope people have constructive comments or could at least point me in the right direction towards other people with an interest in such things.

MNKyDeth 06-24-2004 11:32 AM

I game only on linux. I have not purchased any windows games in over a year for the sole reason I plan to support linux gaming the best I can. First off, my thoughts on how to best support gaming on linux is get every joe schmoe to stop using wine and wineX. I mean, you purchase the game for your linux run machine and then emulate it, ( I know, wine is not an emulator :scratch: ), but most likely you have windows wich is technically a better emulator. Is it really that hard to reboot? Plus even though you are using wine or wineX you are still supporting gaming on microsoft because the store sold it presuming that it was for a MS OS.

In order to support linux gaming at it's best people need to wake up and start purchasing linux native games. Especially from www.tuxgames.com They track what they sell, and it looks as a linux sell because it was bought from a linux only store. When game companies see numbers start to spike from sold games then they will look and see that there truely is an interest. Cash talks, and number of copies sold = more cash. There is no way around it, money money money, and it makes me sad for all the folks out there that use any sort of emulation on there linux box. When they could have bought the games from the selection there is and made linux recognized. Then have companies recognize them as a potential market for more games to be released on there OS.


Actually, another point I thought of. Game companies can prolly call up or mail transgaming and see what there subscriber base is like. If the company was considering making a linux native port. (We'll use Half Life 2 as an example). Let's say Valve actually considered a native port of Half Life 2 for linux. Then they decided to find out the subscriber base for wineX and found that it was nice and big. Then since most users will want Half Lif 2 and Valve knows this, they scrap there linux native plans. Why did they scrap it, because they know wineX (transgaming) will make there game compat for the linux user, totally overlooking and real native compatability. Hence, not pushing linux technology, not showing what linux can do and brushing linux off as if it was not a real OS.

Just my 2c, take it how ya like. ;)

The_Nerd 06-25-2004 05:56 PM

Well another big problem is DirectX (or DirectCrap... however you like to say it ;)), If game companies would just start doing what the Unreal Team and ID software have been doing, that is, use OpenGL, SDL, and OpenAL then the games will compile on Linux without ANY change. I also like how ID software keeps all the stuff you actually pay for out of the binary, and releases their source code, Quake3 is a good example of this.

I think we should somehow kill DirectX, so that its not even an option of use anymore. Maybe someone could write a Virus that did good, that is, killed DirectX instead of hurting peoples systems and giving them headaches.

I vote for a ban on DirectX, completely!!! None of the half-a** stuff that some companies do, actually, more than some. That is, use OpenGL for rendering, and DirectX for every thing else... LAME!

:twocents:

pandasuit 07-06-2004 04:01 PM

The problem with your idea to "ban" directx, as you say, is that we are not a significant consumer group so we do not have any real pull in a situation like that. The major consumer group for PC games doesnt really care what the game is made with (and wouldnt know what the diff between directx and sdl et al is) not to mention they dont care whether Linux people can play the games...as long as they can...that's what they care about.

My major misgivings about moving my gaming off the PC and onto some hypothetical console is that the way console companies make money is by forcing developers to pay a fee and then locking consumers into buying (or renting i guess) games made by those licensed developers. This kindof situation doesnt work for open source and hobby developers (or any small developers really unless they get venture capital) as they cant pay the licensing fees and wouldnt want to anyways. The hardware of a console is often sold at a loss (look at the xbox) or with a low profit so the console maker needs to make its profit off of licensing or accessories. Supporting open source and small developers doesnt work for their revenue stream. Not to mention using a media type (like DVDs) that is easily written to by consumers promotes piracy (or at least they believe...I dont know either way). So they either need to make the media type writable for only licensed consumers or they need to support multiple media types (as the Playstation Portable seems to do with usb access for flash drives).

So can we trust console companies to make a system that works for us? Probably not as it wont work for their revenue stream.

I still think many or most of us will be forced to game on a console style system eventually based on the trend of developers moving from pc games to console games but we are not likely to do this on our own terms...we will be forced to game in an environment that caters to the consumer that knows nothing and wants to know nothing.

I have some ideas of how I would love to see things go...but I always have to come to grips with the fact that what i want as a consumer doesnt work for console makers and big developers revenue streams and as such I dont see it happening.

Micro420 07-06-2004 04:21 PM

I liked it when I could buy Unreal Tournament 2004 and it had a setup for Windows AND Linux. That's the best!

I'm looking forward to Doom 3 because it's going to work in Windows AND Linux. I wish all games could be made for both operating systems.

So if I would like to tell the game makers to make games for Windows AND Linux compatible. Thank you, and have a great day!

pandasuit 07-07-2004 04:46 PM

Yes, that is a good step in the right direction. The problem is that other developers dont seem to follow suit. It is true that those two developers are large with guarantees of many units shipped and able to put the extra time into the Linux port but many companies are similarly large yet dont do the work. I am heartened by the existance of the Linux port of Neverwinter Nights but the Battlefield series shows no signs of being ported...the developers are still using directx.

Does anyone know what Half-life 2 is being developed in?

It is my guess that developers may move away from directx (or at least have dual redering engines) due to the fact that consoles other than the ms one dont support directx. I am under the impression that both the playstation series and the newer nintendos use opengl for rendering.

e1000 07-07-2004 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Micro420
I liked it when I could buy Unreal Tournament 2004 and it had a setup for Windows AND Linux. That's the best!

I'm looking forward to Doom 3 because it's going to work in Windows AND Linux. I wish all games could be made for both operating systems.

I have heard all along that doom 3 will play on both linux and windows, but I'm looking for confirmation, has anybody from ID or another source that's in the loop actually said that Doom3 will be released for linux?
cause you know what assuming does dont you; it makes an ass out of you and me.

also, wineX is good, it's like an indicator, if gaming companies see transgaming becoming very rich off of winex, then they would be more willing to consiter making games native, or even working with the winex team to create a more easy to emulate(dont say it!) game. and I'd much rather have a high quality emualted game than no game at all, as for the 15$, thats nothing, bargan bin games cost more than 15$. on the other hand, if winex is a flop..

I have noticed that when ever some large/inportant program is released on linux, people demand an open source lisence, thats not alot of incentive for an industry that values its source highly as its competitive edge, and this behavior would serve to scare game makers away

just my :twocents:

rakslice 07-07-2004 09:12 PM

Hi, panda.

Sure, some commercial game developers who have already decided to cater to the Linux community for their own reasons might not be as concerned about making a linux native port when projects like Wine/WineX are out there. But I don't think the existance of Wine/WineX makes linux game ports less commercially viable... because I don't think they're very viable to begin with.

I think people who want to support gaming on linux should concentrate on gathering a solid set of APIs that targets a wide range of platforms, and promoting them -- especially to windows developers. Many linux folk resent Windows software development, but they'll have to get over that. If those windows developers can hit additional platforms without too much extra effort, then why not do so? That's a feature DirectX is unlikely to ever compete with.

pandasuit 07-08-2004 04:55 PM

Rak,

I agree about how commercially viable Linux ports are at the moment.

Your point about promoting a cross platform API for game development has merrit...isnt that what SDL is supposed to be? However, I dont believe it will be fought and won unless the API is supported by consoles.

On a side note:
Isnt the Unreal series setup with multiple renderers? Doesnt it use directx by default in Windows. They would have had to write a directx rederer for the engine in any case to get Unreal games on the xbox.

The unreal engine is written and developed seperate from the unreal games. Non-commercial developers can use the engine through modding one of the games. These mods are then (I would assume) as multiplatform as the engine is. ID engines can be accessed similarly. I am not sure how modable the Neverwinter engine is but I know you can create some really cool content (but can you make more significant changes). The Half-life engine is very modable but is not multiplatform (right? but it works in wine...at least it did for me) even though it has an opengl renderer (the better renderer if memory serves). It would be great to see the Source engine (Half-life 2) be multiplatform. I am sure they are more likely to port it to a console than Linux but if they target the Playstation then we know they are going to at least build an opengl renderer.

I am going to have to see how well the Linux Neverwinter port works...does anyone have some experience with it? I run my NWN dedicated server in Linux but since my gaming machine is Windows I havent bothered trying the client.

cb_linus 07-09-2004 05:12 PM

Quote:

originally posted by pandasuit:
I am going to have to see how well the Linux Neverwinter port works...does anyone have some experience with it? I run my NWN dedicated server in Linux but since my gaming machine is Windows I havent bothered trying the client.
I have Neverwinter Nights on my compy along with both expansion packs. It runs fantastic except for the lack of the Aurora toolset and game movies (although, for movies, this might be helpful :)).

[edit]

One problem I did have was when I was using NWN with Reiserfs and a 2.6.x kernel which resulted in some slow loading. Easily fixed (link here)

[/edit] :)

pandasuit 07-10-2004 03:35 AM

How is the performance in comparison to windows?

My laptop (not my gaming box) is primarily Linux (it is what i run the dedicated server on) and barely runs NWN in Windows (Radeon 16MB). Would be great to be able to play it on that machine in Linux as I already have most of the game installed for the dedicated server.

cb_linus 07-12-2004 06:49 PM

Quote:

originally posted by pandasuit
How is the performance in comparison to windows?
As far as could tell (I'm no longer running nwn in windows) the performance seemed identical :) - I'm using an nvidia card (geforce fx5200). I'm not sure how well it would run on a radeon card tho.

GT_Onizuka 07-12-2004 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cb_linus
As far as could tell (I'm no longer running nwn in windows) the performance seemed identical :) - I'm using an nvidia card (geforce fx5200). I'm not sure how well it would run on a radeon card tho.
As long as you have your ATi card set up properly, I'm pretty sure it'll run at least close to how it performs on Windows.


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