LinuxQuestions.org
Welcome to the most active Linux Forum on the web.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Linux From Scratch
User Name
Password
Linux From Scratch This Forum is for the discussion of LFS.
LFS is a project that provides you with the steps necessary to build your own custom Linux system.

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 01-07-2007, 08:54 PM   #1
Vitalie Ciubotaru
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Osaka, Japan
Distribution: Ubuntu Trinity
Posts: 153

Rep: Reputation: 30
LFS - Distibution of the Year? Why/Why not?


Hi everybody,

Jeremy the Root is currently running a poll - the Distribution of the Year and, of course, LFS is in the list of candidates. Yeah, sure, I could wait until Feb. 18 and see the results of the poll, but I am a curious person...
I am just curious to know:
How mature is (B)LFS so as to be called a "distribution"?
or How many people really liked the final result of their "Compilation Nights"?
or maybe How many people would rely on what they compiled and make [not just call] it their base system [either desktop or server]?
or even What motivates people, besides education ["learning by doing"], to make their own Linux From Scratch?
and finally Does LFS have a [real] chance to become a Distro of the Year?,

just curious

Vitalie CIUBOTARU
 
Old 01-08-2007, 04:29 AM   #2
raskin
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: France
Distribution: approximately NixOS (http://nixos.org)
Posts: 1,900

Rep: Reputation: 69
Now I run GNU/Linux on my laptop. It is booted in GNU/Linux most of the time (I have to write programs for Windows sometimes). C library and C compiler were compiled in full accordance with LFS (by ALFS, more exactly jhalfs). It didn't take night though - just a few hours (but if you add X and other hundreds of packages...). I guess that can be called making LFS a base system. I guess we are not enough numerous to make LFS Distribution of the year (we have to overcome SUSE, Fedora and Ubuntu, after all, and counting "C compiler can't create executables" on LQ shows us how numerous are Ubuntu users). Really, I do not use BLFS techniques - I compile things by hand and use package management based on funionfs. The problem with normal distributions is that sometimes doing something in most straightforward way breaks some inner accounting made by configuration GUI. And on system that is tuned to install things from source not caring about broken installers - and with motto 'Your rules' - I do not think about it.
 
Old 01-08-2007, 12:43 PM   #3
zidane_tribal
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: chained to my console.
Distribution: LFS 6.1
Posts: 143

Rep: Reputation: 18
Thumbs up

as a long time LFS user (a couple of years now), let me answer these one by one....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitalie Ciubotaru
Hi everybody,

Jeremy the Root is currently running a poll - the Distribution of the Year and, of course, LFS is in the list of candidates. Yeah, sure, I could wait until Feb. 18 and see the results of the poll, but I am a curious person...
I am just curious to know:
How mature is (B)LFS so as to be called a "distribution"?
yes, i think it is mature enough to be called a distribution. it does provide everything other distributions provide (blfs included).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitalie Ciubotaru
or How many people really liked the final result of their "Compilation Nights"?
do i like it? hell, i cant live without it now. let me highlight a few things rather than just evangelize.

1. Speed. no, really. i have compiled my entire linux setup, from balls to bone. everything that can be optimised, has. admittedly, that means that the software on this hard-drive will only run on this processor, but thats what i want, i'm not going to be upgrading my processor any time soon. the difference between fully optimised (i.e. telling gcc what optimisations to include and what processor it will run on) really can be quite shocking when the entire system is optimised.

2. reliability. linux has always won hands down for reliability, but LFS makes this even more true. the only time my LFS system has broken was before christmas when the hard-drive physicly broke (multiple bad sectors on drive, it was unrecoverable). there is literally nothing in it i do not want or need, and everything i do. i know linux in general is very reliable, but to be honest, LFS tops them all.

3. Ease of use. if you can follow written instructions, you can build an LFS system. now, admittedly, it isnt for newbies, you *do* have to manually configure your own software, etc, and you do need to know what you are doing if it all goes horribly wrong, but once it is up, its up forever. i am currently using FC6 as my hdd broke and i need a running machine to use daily whilst i rebuild my lfs system, i have had endless trouble with things being in odd locations, not being able to find the kernel source code, software i need to use not being available as rpms and not being able to find headers to compile it etc. right now i would pay actual real money to someone who can make kvirc place its tray icon in FC6's tray, it seems impossible. on LFS it worked first time every time, and if i needed anything i knew exactly where it was because i put it there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitalie Ciubotaru
or maybe How many people would rely on what they compiled and make [not just call] it their base system [either desktop or server]?
i rely it on all of my home machines and all of the machines at work, mostly for the reasons above. i origonally started using it because it fulfills the linux promise of "what you want, how you want it", and found it to be able to be used for anything. this is especially important at work where we do have servers under intense load and having to deal with all sorts of crap the windows users try to do to it. in short, it does what i want, when i want, quickly without having anything in there that i dont want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitalie Ciubotaru
or even What motivates people, besides education ["learning by doing"], to make their own Linux From Scratch?
i just wanted to have a go, origonally, i wanted to see if i could build my own system, both hardware and software, to be configured exactly how i want it. it turns out i can, and since that day i have never looked back. i must admit, it was LFS that switched me from a dual-boot'er to a full time linux dude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitalie Ciubotaru
and finally Does LFS have a [real] chance to become a Distro of the Year?,

just curious

Vitalie CIUBOTARU
i sure as hell hope so. i voted for LFS, i really do think that its superior to any other distribution. on the other hand, i do recognise the need for "easy" distro's like ubunto, fedora, mandrake, etc. for people who may not have the level of linux experience some of us have. whilst i heartily reccomend LFS for anyone who wants to have a go, i do know that it will never be a fore-runner, we are a niche distro, but its a nice niche
 
Old 01-08-2007, 04:13 PM   #4
madluther
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2004
Distribution: LFS
Posts: 350

Rep: Reputation: 31
I'd like to echo a few of zidane_tribal's comments.

I have been using LFS exclusively since 4.0 and could never use anything else.

Reliability:
I have a lfs 5.1 machine at work in production that provides the following services to a 1000 node network. DNS, DHCP, Squid + Dansguardian proxy server, Postfix + Amavis-new spam filtering and apache for internal web serving. This machine has been up since Dec 2004 and has rolled over the uptime counter once (497 days) and looks like it may do it again without reboot. Another machine runs samba on the same network and a third is the corporate firewall (IPtables + Free/Swan).

At home a have a 6.0 system that does everything I want from running Quake 4 to openoffice or mythtv. Windows games under wine or dosbox, the list is more than I care type in here. It does what I want, period.

Mad.
 
Old 01-08-2007, 04:24 PM   #5
raskin
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: France
Distribution: approximately NixOS (http://nixos.org)
Posts: 1,900

Rep: Reputation: 69
About uptime 365+: What? A year without any kernel security patches?

About if LFS has chance to become Distribution of the year: I hope that not. For one simple reason.. GNU/Linux needs to win in 64-bit desktop migration and LQ seems to embrace a big and representative part of GNU/Linux community, including newbies. If something requiring quite a lot of computer knowledge and - what is more important, maybe - confidence wins, it will mean that one of two mentioned objectives has little chance to be true.
 
Old 01-22-2007, 07:56 PM   #6
Vitalie Ciubotaru
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Osaka, Japan
Distribution: Ubuntu Trinity
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 30
raskin said
Quote:
GNU/Linux needs to win in 64-bit desktop migration
Well, maybe there's something I didn't understand, but I see no reason why building an OS from scratch wouldn't fit into this objective? To me, LFS is not just a version number, it's rather a concept.

P.S. At the time of this writing, 226 people saw this thread, but only 4 actually posted. How many would vote LFS in the poll?
 
Old 01-22-2007, 08:07 PM   #7
raskin
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: France
Distribution: approximately NixOS (http://nixos.org)
Posts: 1,900

Rep: Reputation: 69
Well, there is nothing wrong with doing that. I simply think we should understand that absolute majority of users will never do it for various reasons. So if we who believe in our computer skills enough to use LFS can win a poll on LQ, it just means LQ leaves out too many users - and so either GNU/Linux has too narrow segment or LQ has too specific audience. I like neither case. So it would be better that something ignorant user-oriented wins big poll. I don't know - *Ubuntu, MEPIS, openSUSE, Mandriva..
 
Old 01-24-2007, 11:20 AM   #8
pannet1
Member
 
Registered: May 2005
Location: India
Distribution: Fedora Core 7
Posts: 47

Rep: Reputation: 15
dear list,

with my small experience i think comparing lfs with other distribution like comparing man with god. i have not seen god yet (lfs booted once but i could not get xfce up and running) and thats the only success.

lfs is doing a noble thing of making people understand linux better rather than making people more lazy, cloning ms, giving unreadable free code. i do not like lfs being called a distribution personally.

may be i am a newbie :-) and far from becoming geek :-(
 
Old 01-24-2007, 04:01 PM   #9
knutz
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Distribution: FC5 and LFS 6.2
Posts: 9

Rep: Reputation: 0
Linux can be a major competitor for home computers (the biggest target for world players) so long as it appeals to an IT-phobic audience (the majority of the world). The more work you have to do to get something running, the less appeal. LFS doesn't fit into the category, so doesn't really qualify.
 
Old 01-28-2007, 04:10 PM   #10
Vitalie Ciubotaru
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Osaka, Japan
Distribution: Ubuntu Trinity
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 30
pannet1 wrote:
Quote:
comparing lfs with other distribution like comparing man with god
Well, I wouldn't even try to compare. If a distibution is a god, than LFS is a [very detailed] instruction of how to produce one more god OF your own and ON your own.
pannet1 wrote:
Quote:
lfs booted once but i could not get xfce up and running
Oh, sir, one can not appreciate something one hasn't actually seen!
pannet1 wrote:
Quote:
i do not like lfs being called a distribution
In the sense of a ready-made, packaged and labelled thing, LFS is not a distribution indeed.
knutz wrote:
Quote:
Linux can be a major competitor for home computers ...
... LFS doesn't fit into the category
Doesn't LFS contribute to the objective of making linux a [more] popular family of OSes?

Last edited by Vitalie Ciubotaru; 01-28-2007 at 04:17 PM.
 
Old 01-28-2007, 05:22 PM   #11
raskin
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: France
Distribution: approximately NixOS (http://nixos.org)
Posts: 1,900

Rep: Reputation: 69
Quote:
Oh, sir, one can not appreciate something one hasn't actually seen!
But one can expect it and its glory. Sometimes you expect even more than you should and get high... I hope this is not the case, but it may be - if eliteness attract to LFS more than control over your system and having nothing to crash not knowing it existed.

Quote:
In the sense of a ready-made, packaged and labelled thing, LFS is not a distribution indeed.
But it is in some sense. (Wow, 3 word matching 'i.' regular expression in row) You take Automated LFS, answer some questions (with some skills editing configuration files is no more than answering the implied questions) and leave it to build you the core of your system. The key benefit over Gentoo so far is getting normal vim in installation. More to be seen later. Then you say it "ok, noDoesn't LFS contribute to the objective of making linux a [more] popular family of OSes?w this-and-this from Beyond LFS" and leave it for some time to build. Is the difference with Gentoo big ebough not to call LFS a distribution while leaving distribution status for Gentoo, Arch et cetera?

Quote:
Doesn't LFS contribute to the objective of making linux a [more] popular family of OSes?
Rather little. Think of it - nearly all successful LFS users had some GNU/Linux experience before. So LFS is mainly improving satisfaction and skills of small number of already converted users. Well, sometimes these users are system administrators and this becomes the last drop that makes one lobby converting "FreeBSD+GNU/Linux servers and proprietary OS on client boxes" network to GNU/Linux clients, but I guess it's a rare case. In the same time Linspire and Ubuntu work hard to take Windows users and convert them here and now. Even without educating. This lowers quality, but lifts quantity, and I'm sure that user quality never counts in said-to-be-50% game.

Last edited by raskin; 01-28-2007 at 05:29 PM.
 
Old 02-02-2007, 12:45 AM   #12
fnf
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2007
Distribution: Ubuntu Edgy server
Posts: 1

Rep: Reputation: 0
I have to admit that I tried LFS for a week and failed
to realize how I'll manage it. I'm talking about
the package management, it just goes too damn tired
to download, configure, make and install the hundreds
packages manually.

Does anyone actually build and just use the 'raw' LFS
without relying on a package manager ?. On the other
hand, if you just build the base LFS then install
a package manager (Debian, Portage...) on top of it
then install most of your software through the PM,
you don't really have built and used your own distro.
 
Old 02-02-2007, 02:22 AM   #13
raskin
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: France
Distribution: approximately NixOS (http://nixos.org)
Posts: 1,900

Rep: Reputation: 69
I have. I have written a partial package manager based on funionfs, that allows me to track installations and remove failed/obsolete installs easily, but most of the software (well, I gave up and installed Flash and Java) is downloaded and compiled. But I failed to compile wxPython library recently, so it is not always easy.
 
Old 02-09-2007, 07:51 PM   #14
Vitalie Ciubotaru
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Osaka, Japan
Distribution: Ubuntu Trinity
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 30
raskin wrote:
Quote:
LFS is mainly improving satisfaction and skills of small number of already converted users
Why everybody here thinks we are a sort of exceptions - like "nobody but ME can build a Linuxsystem! 'coz I am the SELECTED!" Why not "If I could do it, than anybody can 'coz I am TYPICAL!" Aren't we coming closer to the times when compilation of an entire system will take hours, not days/weeks/months as it is today?
 
Old 02-10-2007, 11:17 PM   #15
raskin
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: France
Distribution: approximately NixOS (http://nixos.org)
Posts: 1,900

Rep: Reputation: 69
'I can', 'I want' and 'I will' are not the same. I said most users won't do it - because most users don't want. Their ability is purely theoretical question. Think of it - some people still use Internet Explorer.. They don't care. I am not selected - maybe even below average now both if measured as programmer and system administrator, but I have some self-written patches in programs I have in my LFS-based system. Do you think many people will enjoy doing such things?
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What distibution to use for 400mhz pc dakie Linux - General 7 10-13-2006 08:19 AM
appropriate distibution for old computer eypros Linux - Distributions 5 03-24-2006 03:02 AM
A Multiple CD Distibution? Murdock1979 Linux - General 4 01-04-2006 11:12 AM
which distibution to choose??? Smoothy04 Linux - Newbie 7 12-01-2005 03:21 AM
Linux Distibution Compatibility duerra Linux - Newbie 2 10-24-2003 01:56 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Linux From Scratch

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:27 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration