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Linux From Scratch This Forum is for the discussion of LFS.
LFS is a project that provides you with the steps necessary to build your own custom Linux system.

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Old 09-24-2003, 08:06 AM   #1
guygriffiths
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Location: Reading, UK
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Install LFS?


I am currently running Debian, and would like to install LFS on my spare HD partition. Before I do this however, I have two questions?:
1) Once LFS is installed, is it easy to update new software? Is it simply a case of uninstalling the old version, and then installing the new version from source? Or do you have to install a new version over the top, thus slowly building up obselete files?
2) I have a 2GHz AthlonXP with 1GB RAM. Does anyone have any idea approximately how long it will take to compile everything? Especially X/KDE (I know these are BLFS, but still...). I sleep in the same room as my PC and I don't want the fan running all night, since it's disturbing (actually, my girlfiend doesn't want the fan running all night, but there we go). If X is likely to take 2 days, I'm not sure I can be bothered with it all.

Thanks
Guy
 
Old 09-24-2003, 11:59 AM   #2
Dark_Helmet
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1) Once you have a system built, it is just like any distribution out there. You can install package management (apt, rpm, whatever) to help in adding or removing software. To upgrade the system as a whole, you would have to take the same steps necessary if you wanted to upgrade Red Hat system software, or Debian, or... Some packages are easily replaced by installing on top of existing ones (gawk, sed, etc.), but others aren't (glibc in particular).

2) I have a P4-1.6GHz with 1GB of RAM at home. If you install the system by copy-and-paste methods (like copying the commands from a web browser showing the book into an xterm), it takes less than a day to install the base LFS system. After that, it depends on how much thought you put into your next step: you won't have a web browser, ftp client, or net access in general with your LFS system. I usually install wget as part of my base system. Then when you reboot into LFS and set up your network (IP addresses, DNS, and whatever else), then you can grab the source code using the links BLFS provides to install X. Otherwise, you need to remember to download all the packages from your source distribution beforehand. You'll quickly get tired of rebooting repeatedly because you forgot to get that other dependency package. Installing and configuring X took me around 2 hours (if I remember correctly). Installing Gnome takes longer, but can be done in piece-wise fashion (there are many dependencies for Gnome). I have not messed with KDE, but I would imagine it is similar. There should be no single package that will take more than a few hours to compile. Mozilla was the worst when it came to compile time for me. I think it was on the order of 4 to 6 hours. It's been a while, and I know those numbers are off, but they're good ballpark figures.
 
Old 09-25-2003, 05:22 AM   #3
guygriffiths
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Thanks for your help. I will give it a go in the next couple of days. I don't want a package management program, since that is my main reason for wanting to use LFS since I am fed up of having missing dependencies where I have installed a package from source, or my main problem which is:
1) Package xxx requires yyy version 1.0
2) Package zzz requires yyy version 1.1
3) Package yyy version 1.1 provides yyy version 1.0
4) yyy v1.0 conflicts with yyy v1.1
Where xxx won't accept that yyy v1.1 provides the required version, meaning I can either install xxx or zzz but not both.
I don't have a net connection at home, since I don't have a phone line. Presumably if I do get a phone, I can always install the modem drivers and just recompile the kernel to include the necessary network support?
Guy
 
Old 09-25-2003, 10:47 AM   #4
Dark_Helmet
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you aren't going to escape dependencies...

A story from my own LFS experience: I wanted to install Enlightenment as my Window Manager. When I ran configure, it said Enlightenment required freetype >= 1.X. That was disconcerting because I already installed freetype 2.X for XFree86. Clearly 2.X is greater than 1.X. However, there is something different/incompatible between them. Maybe the 1.X library has obsolete calls. Maybe the 2.X library has a new text-display ability, meaning more information needs to be provided than the 1.X version required. I dunno, but to get Enlightenment to work, I needed to install both of them. Compiling/installing from source won't get rid of those dependencies or incompatibilities.

As for the modem stuff, I can't help you there. I don't have a modem at home, and consequently absolutely 0 experience with setting them up in Linux. If you have access to a CD burner, I would suggest downloading all the packages you need to install after the LFS base system, and put them on CD.
 
Old 09-26-2003, 06:26 AM   #5
guygriffiths
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But you could install both? Debian will only let me do one or the other
 
Old 10-01-2003, 03:03 AM   #6
citro
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what "both"?
Debian next to LFS? yes, you can.
or a modem next to network? yes.
/edit: did you mean, install freetype 1.x next to freetype 2.x? yes, in the case of freetype, that works.

btw, X isn't much of a problem, it took me about 1,5 h to compile and configure it on a 2.5 Ghz AMD Laptop with 512 Mb. KDE is much easier: download all the packages and a tool named "konstruct" - This tool will build the whole KDE for you, from scratch. Don't forget to download and install the QT library!
Konstruct ran about 10 hours (but it had to download all the packages before they could be compiled, I didn't download them manually)

Last edited by citro; 10-01-2003 at 06:42 AM.
 
Old 10-01-2003, 03:15 AM   #7
fsbooks
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I presume you could also install both on Debian if you bypass the package tool. On my rh 7.3 system, I installed and build all the glib2 and associated packages in /usr/local, although the system was a glib(1) system which allowed me to build and use software otherwise unuseable. I just recently did an up2date 7.3 -> 9.0 which obsoleted the /usr/local packages (but that is another story).
 
Old 10-15-2003, 04:21 AM   #8
qanopus
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I'm wondering: did any body install open office from source? It take a long time to install that from source!
 
Old 10-15-2003, 04:34 AM   #9
guygriffiths
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I'm just thinking about it now. I was going to do it last weekend, but then I found that BLFS said 14 hours on a 850MHz machine. Mine is 2GHz but I still didn't fancy it.
Still, I need some form of Office Suite. Hsa anyone used KOffice? I've used it before, but it had very little compatibility with MSOffice, which is really what I need. It messed up tables and positions of pictures etc. Does anyone know if it's improved in the more recent versions.
Also, has anyone used OpenOffice 1.1? Is it significantly better?
 
Old 10-15-2003, 11:36 PM   #10
Megamieuwsel
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Uhmm....
I have a 900Mhz comp with 382MB of RAM and OpenOffice compiled in little under an hour.(OpenOffice 1.0.3)
 
Old 10-16-2003, 04:23 AM   #11
guygriffiths
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Quote:
openoffice-1.0.2
Introduction to openoffice
Download location (HTTP): http://sf1.mirror.openoffice.org/sta...source.tar.bz2
Download location (FTP):
Version used: 1.0.2
Package size: 155 MB
Estimated Disk space required: 2.1 GB
Estimated Build time: 14 Hrs (850 MHz)
Estimated Install size: 203 MB
Someone has problems with their box then. Or you're lying, and I doubt you'd lie just for the hell of it.
Well, I've downloaded it now, so I'll give it a o later this week.
Thanks, you've made me feel better about trying now.
 
Old 10-16-2003, 05:43 AM   #12
soulsniper
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Quote:
Once you have a system built, it is just like any distribution out there. You can install package management (apt, rpm, whatever) to help in adding or removing software.
Cool, I wanna install apt on my system when I've finished upgrading to the version 5.0-pre2. Anyone had any success in doing this?

This should be included in BLFS if it isn't already...
 
Old 10-16-2003, 06:25 AM   #13
qanopus
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Quote:
I have a 900Mhz comp with 382MB of RAM ...
I have the same set-up. Less then an hour?? I could sware I read someware that it takes more then 10! Not that I'm saying your lying. It's probebly me being stupid again.
The longest compile time I had was with KDE 3.1, which to something about 3 hours. And that's not including download time and I didn't compile the entire enviroment.
 
Old 10-16-2003, 06:29 AM   #14
qanopus
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Or wait a minute, reading through the other posts, I see that compiling it on an 850 MHz machine takes 14 hours! You'r probebly confuesed with something else
 
Old 10-16-2003, 07:52 AM   #15
Megamieuwsel
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Quote:
OOo_1.0.3.1_LinuxIntel_install_nl.tar.gz {67.68MB}
That's the one I DL-ed and compiled ;It's the Dutch version.
As I mentioned ; less than an hour compiling and up and running.
Haven't used it much yet ; just the wordprocessor to jut out an application-letter and haven't been able(nor tried) to locate the spreadsheet etc.

./configure with just the default.

You tell me , if it's me , that's using the wrong orifice for oratory purposes, or the a typo on the cited website.

Hmm...
Package-size.....
about half of what's mentioned a few posts up...
Makes me wonder , whether I have the full version....

Last edited by Megamieuwsel; 10-16-2003 at 08:08 AM.
 
  


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