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Linux From Scratch This Forum is for the discussion of LFS.
LFS is a project that provides you with the steps necessary to build your own custom Linux system.

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Old 07-09-2003, 06:46 PM   #1
tjm
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Advantages of LFS


I have been using Linux as my primary OS for about 6 months now. I use RedHat 9.

I reason I chose RedHat was quite simple - when I typed in all the distro names on google, RedHat was most popular, and hence has the best user support base -- IMHO.

However, now that I have started to learn my way around Linux a bit better, I am thinking of building my own distro -- or using another. Could you answer me the following $64K question :

Is it worth my while?

I want my new distro to be faster -- most important
I need my distro to have good graphics support.
I want it to be easily updateable to the latest and greatest versions of stuff like X, the Kernel, as well as normal user software. RedHat is slow issuing some updates, which is my main gripe.
I *need* my new distro to have good hardware support because I don't think I am quite good enough yet to figure out how to configure things myself (IE : making Linux find my printer / wireless / graphics / etc...) and to make it more complicated... I use a laptop

I have heard that Gentoo is designed to allow the user to compile his/her own versions of all the packages -- is that similar to LFS? It seems to me that that would allow all the performance advantages of LFS.

With LFS, can I still *easily* dual-boot and partition my HDs and perform other tasks usually done in the RedHat install?

If I do choose to go the LFS route, how long does it take to setup (how many tries!) and how easy is it to maintain?

So, those are my questions...

Any and all input is welcome...
 
Old 07-09-2003, 08:07 PM   #2
jpbarto
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LFS is easy to setup and maintain. I would give yourself a good week to install it. (and be prepared for the next month to be filling in holes here in there (libraries, etc)).

You can try LFS, however you might find Gentoo to be a little faster and a little easier.
 
Old 07-09-2003, 08:19 PM   #3
mfread
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Cool

As a current user of RH9 and someone who has built LFS systems numerous times I think it'd be fair to make a few suggestions here.

An LFS system in the cookie cutter format is really kind of pointless other than for educational purposes (ie you REALLY want to understand your system). With what you learn from building an LFS system you will know how to properly disect any linux distro you come across and this can be helpful.

It sounds to me however like you are really looking for slightly more modern packages and better performance on your system. In this respect and LFS system can be very very fast, but actually building an LFS system into the equivelent of a modern distribution takes ALOT of time. Once your done you don't neccesarily have an easily recreatable system either, if you want one then you need to invest alot more time building an installer and making a proper distro out of it that can be installed without going through the entire procedure to recompile each time (or at least automating it).

I've found LFS for performance is useful on dedicated purpose systems. You probably don't want to bother with doing this for your desktop system, but if you need a router that will compete with most cisco's out there... a trimmed LFS might just do the trick.

If your wanting these advantages on a desktop system there are a few things you can do with RH9 that will get you closer to where you want to go.

1. Compile a custom kernel, the optimization benefits of everything else are debatable, but a properly tuned kernel can make all the difference in the world. At the time I'm posting this the 2.4.21 kernel has been released, I've had no trouble using a completely patch free compile of this kernel... the performance improvements in terms of system responsivness and "feeling quick" are amazing. If your like me you've often looked at complex tasks on windows systems compared to linux and gasp at linux's speed... but then open a linux app on your desktop and wonder how the hell it can take so long, as of 2.4.21 this issue has been seriously improved (espcially if you use IDE drives).

2. hdparm, make sure you use hdparm to tune your disks... if not you may not actually be getting the full benefits. I've experiemented with this for fun... I've noticed odd things as well I haven't had time to investigate (and certainly never tried on any real use box) but using hdparm and telling your drive is UDMA on an old drive that isn't actually seems to significantly improve performance, instead of breaking everything as you'd expect?

3. Memory, remember your linux system doesn't like to use virtual memory until it has no choice and you take a performance hit when the system turns it on because your running low on ram. Make sure you have as much memory in your machine as possible. On linux this can results in significantly bigger performance boosts than a processor upgrade!

4. For updates, redhat is dog slow on updates unless they are bug fix releases. For my server or business workstation this is good... for my home desktop I no like On my desktops at home I install apt from apt.freshrpms.net, this is preconfigured to use their apt respository which is reasonably large and usually quite a bit more cutting edge than redhat. Just install the apt rpm from the site, do an `apt-get update`, to update your package lists to match the current stuff in the respository, then `apt-get upgrade`.


I think what you meant to ask might have been simply, does the optimization from custom compiling have a big enough performance impact to make a difference. You'll likely hear alot of conflicting answers on this... I've found that it can make a difference in time critical applications where the most minute on paper gain is critical... but gains that are only visible on paper don't generally make a feelable impact on a desktop system.
 
Old 07-09-2003, 09:43 PM   #4
Azmeen
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tjm,

This has nothing to do with any assumption on your competency with Linux or anything... but I'd say, LFS is definitely not for your needs. LFS is more of a learning tool which you can use to understand the innards of a Linux system.

If you want bleeding edge everything, it doesn't actually depend on the distro you're using... the beauty of the GPL is that sources are available for almost all Linux apps... so, why don't you compile [Insert App Name Here] yourself instead of relying on RedHat? It might even be better optimized for your system (if you know some neat compiling/programming tricks).
 
Old 07-09-2003, 11:46 PM   #5
mdh
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Quote:
Originally posted by mfread
In this respect and LFS system can be very very fast, but actually building an LFS system into the equivelent of a modern distribution takes ALOT of time. Once your done you don't neccesarily have an easily recreatable system either, if you want one then you need to invest alot more time building an installer and making a proper distro out of it that can be installed without going through the entire procedure to recompile each time
I wouldn't quite go that far.
CVS/Subversions is a wonderful thing to keep track of buildscripts and also, if you are that way inclined, to store your binaries.

Also its not terribly hard to create a tarball for each package you build and install

To grab the list of files (ch6) to stauff into a tarball, after compilation

filelist=`find / -newer ${SRCDIR} | grep -v ${SRCDIR}`
tar -cvjf packagename-pkgver.tar.bz2 ${filelist}

This you can also shove into CVS/Subversions in binary format

If you are methodical in your build methods the build is easily recreatable.

HTH
 
Old 07-10-2003, 08:34 AM   #6
tjm
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Thanks for all your replies

It seems the prevailing opinion is that LFS is a good learning tool...

I think I will go the apt-get and new kernel route as that seems to be exactly what I am looking for.

Thanks again everyone
 
  


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