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Old 03-17-2018, 08:07 AM   #1
namichel
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Question badge reader - time tracker


Hi all

It's my first post here.

I have a small vape shop in Switzerland.

As now I have 4 employees, presence management become time consuming.

I plan to buy a small badge reader to allow me to do not have to control my small team. They are not always on time and I have no time to follow who do what.

First question : What is the exact keywords to find this ?
In french it's a badgeuse but I don't find any linux compatible solution.
In English "Time Tracker" just give me a ton of "project management software"

Of course, a badge reader is a simple USB component and I should write my own software but I have no time for that.
I don't want to pay a guy to write it as I think it's the worst solution - worst than use M$.

Second question : By chance, do you know any solution ?
I mean a terminal such this : https://www.safescan.com/fr-ch/store...uses-badgeuses but with a linux compatibility backend software.

Thanks !

Nicolas
 
Old 03-17-2018, 08:23 AM   #2
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namichel View Post
Hi all
It's my first post here. I have a small vape shop in Switzerland. As now I have 4 employees, presence management become time consuming. I plan to buy a small badge reader to allow me to do not have to control my small team. They are not always on time and I have no time to follow who do what.

First question : What is the exact keywords to find this ? In french it's a badgeuse but I don't find any linux compatible solution. In English "Time Tracker" just give me a ton of "project management software"

Of course, a badge reader is a simple USB component and I should write my own software but I have no time for that. I don't want to pay a guy to write it as I think it's the worst solution - worst than use M$.

Second question : By chance, do you know any solution ? I mean a terminal such this : https://www.safescan.com/fr-ch/store...uses-badgeuses but with a linux compatibility backend software.
Honestly, your post is confusing, and I believe you're looking at the problem you're trying to solve, in the wrong way.

First, you can easily use Linux to generate a QRcode with an employee name on it, and if you want to keep things VERY simple, just get any old iPhone or Android phone/tablet, and load ScanPet on it. Saves QRcode scans to a CSV spreadsheet. From there, it can shove results up to Dropbox/Google Drive/Email/Whatever, and you can import to a database easily, to run whatever reports you want.

But you have more serious issues, if you don't mind me saying. I own a business as well, and have about 30 employees; we have NO time tracking system, because I make it very clear of the expectations I have, and act accordingly if they're not met. I don't have to have anyone clock in/out, because if someone is going to be late in they are SURE to tell me. If they work late, they are also sure to tell me, so I can give other time off to compensate. If you have FOUR PEOPLE in one small shop, and you say you "have no time to follow" them...and you are the OWNER...you need to take the running of your business more seriously.

You then say you want to write your own software, but (again) have no time to do it, and don't want to pay someone to do it. Therefore, you have to purchase a solution. If you're doing that, buy whatever fits your budget...who cares what it runs on the back end?

And if your four employees can't be bothered to show up on time and work their shifts without being babysat, what makes you think they're going to be stellar at scanning a badge? Or having their buddy scan it for them?
 
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Old 03-17-2018, 08:58 AM   #3
namichel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
Honestly, your post is confusing, and I believe you're looking at the problem you're trying to solve, in the wrong way.

First, you can easily use Linux to generate a QRcode with an employee name on it, and if you want to keep things VERY simple, just get any old iPhone or Android phone/tablet, and load ScanPet on it. Saves QRcode scans to a CSV spreadsheet. From there, it can shove results up to Dropbox/Google Drive/Email/Whatever, and you can import to a database easily, to run whatever reports you want.

But you have more serious issues, if you don't mind me saying. I own a business as well, and have about 30 employees; we have NO time tracking system, because I make it very clear of the expectations I have, and act accordingly if they're not met. I don't have to have anyone clock in/out, because if someone is going to be late in they are SURE to tell me. If they work late, they are also sure to tell me, so I can give other time off to compensate. If you have FOUR PEOPLE in one small shop, and you say you "have no time to follow" them...and you are the OWNER...you need to take the running of your business more seriously.

You then say you want to write your own software, but (again) have no time to do it, and don't want to pay someone to do it. Therefore, you have to purchase a solution. If you're doing that, buy whatever fits your budget...who cares what it runs on the back end?

And if your four employees can't be bothered to show up on time and work their shifts without being babysat, what makes you think they're going to be stellar at scanning a badge? Or having their buddy scan it for them?
Thanks for your answer.
Yes I can create QRcode, it's easy.
I'll try ScanPet. Cool, it look as a simple solution !

For the rest, I'm glad you don't need tracking. Cool for you ;-)
Yes I need to take the running of my business more in deep, you're right.

Time tracking should be seen as something not cool and when I read you, it seam it's what you think.
Personally I think it's just a tool, only the manner you use is should be not cool.
There's a "social aspect" in my team who request maybe more supervising than usual.

Anyway, thank you for your idea !
I think it's a way to work.

Bye

Nicolas
 
Old 03-17-2018, 09:41 AM   #4
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namichel View Post
Thanks for your answer.
Yes I can create QRcode, it's easy. I'll try ScanPet. Cool, it look as a simple solution !

For the rest, I'm glad you don't need tracking. Cool for you ;-) Yes I need to take the running of my business more in deep, you're right.

Time tracking should be seen as something not cool and when I read you, it seam it's what you think. Personally I think it's just a tool, only the manner you use is should be not cool. There's a "social aspect" in my team who request maybe more supervising than usual.
Nothing to do with "not cool"; if you have four people now and can't keep track of them or make them show up on time (despite you telling them), what makes you think you'll be able to get these same four people to scan badges, because you tell them to? They won't do that any more than they show up on time now. There is no tech solution to solve a human problem. No matter WHAT you implement, someone will find a way around it.

If you want to solve your problem, you have a meeting with all four of your employees, and tell them point blank it needs to stop, and folks need to show up on time, period, and you make sure you are the first one in every morning. And the next person who shows up late gets fired, then and there, no exceptions/excuses. Done. The remainder will get the message and do one of two things: take it seriously and show up on time, or quit. Either way, you'll be free to hire reliable people after that, and your problem is gone. It may sound harsh, but this is YOUR BUSINESS...if you're paying a salary and they're not doing what you hired them to do, when they're supposed to do it, they are (LITERALLY) stealing from you.

There is no "social aspect"; they are there to WORK, and for that they get PAID, period. Bar owners face the same thing, and a professional bartender can be social and friendly with customers, but also not touch a drop during their entire shift, and make sure things stay in line.
 
Old 03-17-2018, 02:17 PM   #5
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
If you want to solve your problem, you have a meeting with all four of your employees, and tell them point blank it needs to stop, and folks need to show up on time, period, and you make sure you are the first one in every morning. And the next person who shows up late gets fired, then and there, no exceptions/excuses. Done.
erm.
switzerland is not the united states, tb0ne.

that said, even in switzerland people will get into trouble if they continuously don't show up on time, and i basically agree with your sentiment that it would be best to solve the problem on a communication level, and not a technological one.
this is a small business.

but apart from that, i find op's question easy to understand:

- these are my requirements
- does linux software exist for that.

strangely, there's been no talk of hardware wich would seem to be an essential part of this strategy.
 
Old 03-17-2018, 04:22 PM   #6
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
erm. switzerland is not the united states, tb0ne.

that said, even in switzerland people will get into trouble if they continuously don't show up on time, and i basically agree with your sentiment that it would be best to solve the problem on a communication level, and not a technological one. this is a small business.
Yes, I know Switzerland isn't the US. However, the problem has nothing to do with country, but people. If someone is paying someone else, and the employee isn't showing up/working full shifts/goofing off/whatever, they are getting paid for work they're not doing, end of story. Doesn't matter if they're one of four people at a small shop in Switzerland, or one of 1,000 at a mid-sized company in Canada, or one of 10,000 at a large company in the US. If they can't be trusted to do the job they're hired to do, then they sure can't be trusted to scan a badge, or get one of their friends to scan it for them. It's a personnel problem, not a tech issue.

Frankly, when I was starting out, I was working at least 80 hours a week, and was first in/last out pretty much every day. I made it a POINT to know everything that was going on, even when I had about 9 folks working for me. My business is my own, and I lead by example. I don't ask my people to do anything I won't do. So, I'm in early and get the job done, and expect no less from them. And they deliver, because they know they're rewarded for doing so, and because they know I do it too. There's not a 'corporate culture' of slacking off, so if someone tries it, they're weeded out pretty quickly, because their co-workers don't tolerate it.
Quote:
but apart from that, i find op's question easy to understand:
- these are my requirements
- does linux software exist for that.
strangely, there's been no talk of hardware wich would seem to be an essential part of this strategy.
They mentioned a USB scanner, of which there are plenty that work with Linux and can read QR Codes. But, the OP said they didn't want to code it themselves, nor did they want to pay someone. That leaves purchasing an off-the-shelf solution. And at that point, doesn't matter if it's Linux or not...it's a proprietary, and vendor supported.
 
Old 03-17-2018, 09:05 PM   #7
frankbell
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I used to work for a company that produces access control cards, software, and circuitry. Our stuff was proprietary and pricey, but it worked great.

An access control system normally has three sets of components: The software at the headend; circuit boards which connect to the card reader, door locks, and other peripherals, and, remember access levels and access codes, and in turn relay access information back to the headend; and the card readers or keypads to allow entry of identity codes or RFID signals. Wikipedia has a good intro: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_control

You might take a look at some of the offerings a SuperCircuits. I do not know whether they sell internationally, but their offerings may give you some ideas.

If you can manage it, I would recommend RFID cards over nkeypads.

A web search for "linux door access control" turned up several results, but I was too lazy to check whether any of them are FLOSS.
 
Old 03-20-2018, 10:35 AM   #8
namichel
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Thanks Frankbell, your keywords sound good !

I found this :
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...5aecQ83ZY7&s=p
and this :
https://www.timetrex.com

Now I have to verify compatibility, functionality, etc ...


For the question of TBOne, a human problem can't be solved by a computer, ok.
But still I think a badge reader can simplify my life.

I'll compare also this with a simple QRcode reader, but I think the QRcode take more time to activate.

I'll tell you which solution I choose and how it works

Thanks to all !
 
Old 03-20-2018, 10:44 AM   #9
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namichel View Post
Thanks Frankbell, your keywords sound good !

I found this :
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...5aecQ83ZY7&s=p
and this :
https://www.timetrex.com

Now I have to verify compatibility, functionality, etc ...
Not a lot to be compatible with. If you're not going to write a program or hire someone to write it, then the only option left is to buy something and have it as it is.
Quote:
For the question of TBOne, a human problem can't be solved by a computer, ok. But still I think a badge reader can simplify my life. I'll compare also this with a simple QRcode reader, but I think the QRcode take more time to activate. I'll tell you which solution I choose and how it works
Honestly, with only four people, I find it hard to fathom how you can't keep track of them in your own business. And no matter what badge you have (RFID, QRcode, whatever), you are STILL left with "your people need to scan it".

Again...if you can't trust them to show up and do what's needed, why do you think you can trust them to scan a badge? If you can't get your employees to listen to you now about what the working hours are, they sure aren't going to listen to you when you tell them to scan a badge. You're going to waste your money on whatever solution you go with; the real solution is for you to get involved with your business and make sure your employees know that they work for YOU, not the other way around.
 
Old 03-20-2018, 11:11 AM   #10
namichel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
Again...if you can't trust them to show up and do what's needed, why do you think you can trust them to scan a badge? If you can't get your employees to listen to you now about what the working hours are, they sure aren't going to listen to you when you tell them to scan a badge. You're going to waste your money on whatever solution you go with; the real solution is for you to get involved with your business and make sure your employees know that they work for YOU, not the other way around.
Well, I try to be short but it seam it's important for you that I explain a bit my point of view ...

- I hire some ex-addict guys, it's a "social aspect" of my job. Team management need more verifications than usual. I trust them but I prefer trust _and_ control.
- I prefer someone who - sometimes - come late for any reason but who stay later if needed. This liberty make time check more complicated.
- I'm not ordered, I'm a creative guy, and I forgot almost everything. Planning is changing regulary. So a log file should help
- 2 or 3 days per week, I work at home. So I can't always control arrivals.
- I still spend a lot of time to serve clients, so management is not my only job and I'm overworked

So I think badge reader can simplify my life, avoid subjective perception and it will give me factual numbers.
 
Old 03-20-2018, 12:22 PM   #11
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namichel View Post
Well, I try to be short but it seam it's important for you that I explain a bit my point of view ...

- I hire some ex-addict guys, it's a "social aspect" of my job. Team management need more verifications than usual. I trust them but I prefer trust _and_ control.
- I prefer someone who - sometimes - come late for any reason but who stay later if needed. This liberty make time check more complicated.
- I'm not ordered, I'm a creative guy, and I forgot almost everything. Planning is changing regulary. So a log file should help
- 2 or 3 days per week, I work at home. So I can't always control arrivals.
- I still spend a lot of time to serve clients, so management is not my only job and I'm overworked

So I think badge reader can simplify my life, avoid subjective perception and it will give me factual numbers.
Not important to me in any way, but you are missing the point entirely.
  • You say you trust them...so why do you then have to keep track of their time? And again, if you're not trusting them to work on time, you can't trust them to badge in/out.
  • Not saying you have to work rigid hours at all; things happen. But it goes back to trust; if you trust them, you know they'll make up the time, regardless of a badge. No need to do a 'time check' if you trust people (as you say you do).
  • If you forget almost everything and you're a 'creative guy', then how do you keep track of your business? And if you're 'not ordered', why are you suddenly going to pay attention to a log file?
  • If you have 4 employees, there should never (in my opinion) any time where you work from home. You have a brick-and-mortar store and its your business. There should NEVER be a day that you're opened that you're not present, for at least a portion of the day.
  • If you have 4 employees, then THEY need to be working, and you need to be the boss, and step in only when necessary. Otherwise, your four employees are getting paid to do very little.
And everything you've posted says to me your business will be short-lived, but good luck to you.
 
Old 03-20-2018, 12:44 PM   #12
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
Not important to me in any way, but you are missing the point entirely.
no, TB0ne, YOU are missing the point.
you have now been explained that this is a social project maybe more than profit orientated.
i personally found op's explanation very clarifying.
i work in the social sector and i can understand their argumentation very well.
get over it:
not everyone is a businessman.
things work differently elsewhere (thank god for that).

Last edited by ondoho; 03-20-2018 at 12:52 PM.
 
Old 03-20-2018, 01:04 PM   #13
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
no, TB0ne, YOU are missing the point.
you have now been explained that this is a social project maybe more than profit orientated.
No, that has NOT been explained, only that this owner (and just found this out in the last post), hires ex-addicts as a social project. And when it was stated by the OP, they clearly said the business has a 'social aspect'; which can easily be read as spending time socializing with customers. In their first post, they said "I have a small vape shop in Switzerland." That says two things:
  • It is privately owned
  • It is SMALL
The points are simple to understand, and are mutually exclusive:
  1. If the shop is owned by someone wealthy as a 'social project', then they aren't going to care about time in/out, since they have the money to accommodate this.
  2. If the shop is owned by the city/state/whatever as a 'social project', then the owner isn't going to care about time in/out, since their business is subsidized anyway. If subsidized, then the subsidizer needs to provide time tracking software/hardware/whatever at no cost to the owner.
  3. If the shop is the owners source of income, and they can't rely on points 1 or 2, then the owner needs to get personally motivated to RUN THEIR BUSINESS
Four employees and the owner is not present for a good part of the week? Unless this small vape shop has a line out the door from opening until closing every night, why can 4 employees not handle the customers, and leave the owner to be the manager? There's nothing about this that has a tech solution, nor does it require one.
Quote:
i personally found op's explanation very clarifying. in fact, as i work in the social sector myself, i can understand this argumentation very well. get over it:
not everyone is a businessman. things work differently elsewhere (thank god for that).
There is no need to be rude with a "get over it" statement. You may work in the social sector, and that's great. I'm not saying anything negative about anyone who works there, or may work there, their situations, etc. But there is ZERO about such folks that prevents them from showing up on time if they have a job and are sincere about their new life choices. Ex addict, ex convict, whatever...you are what you chose to make yourself.

I don't care what part of the world you're in, you can either work and be trustworthy or not.
 
Old 03-21-2018, 12:43 AM   #14
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
There is no need to be rude with a "get over it" statement.
it is interesting that you of all LQ users should admonish others like that.
you know that many consider your (continuous, i might add) statements rude, even in this thread?
 
Old 03-21-2018, 06:59 AM   #15
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
it is interesting that you of all LQ users should admonish others like that. you know that many consider your (continuous, i might add) statements rude, even in this thread?
Yes, ondoho...and the same has been said of you, and pretty much any of the regular posters here, hasn't it?
 
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