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Old 06-01-2005, 08:26 PM   #16
Jaxn
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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Sweden
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 142

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Non need to buy two machines, if you don't want one extra for backup. One machine with Linux/Unix could do all that your MS Windows server would do and more (sharing disks, handling mail, sharing printers, backup, running a good firewall etc).

And a linux/Unix server can handel more load than a MS Windows one (No need dragging a graphical interface if you don't use it as a work station). And you still can use graphickal tools on it. With X11 you can show the graphics on another machine.

MS Certified only means that they had past one test (there are different ones). Not that they know anything.

And you wouldn't run your companys servers on play stations would you? That is what Microsoft so called OS is (It's tru that it is better now, which doesn't say much, it's just what i should have been in the first place). Works ok on desktops, but not in servers. And you should realy ask what the information on the server is worth. Down time becouse of virus and spyware and crackers or a much easier to secure system, that is also used in lots of firewalls?
(First is MS Windows and second one Unix/Linux solution)
And as Thorn told you. There is tools to admin a Unix/Linux box via a webb interface.

If you don't mess with interiar (drivers and sutch), Linux is a Unix operationg system. And if you are running a server, you SHOULD use Debian Stable. MUCH better packing and infrastructure for security updates and installation of programs. in theory and practice.

And, you will earn money to your company. Which isn't true with a Microsoft solution. So if your company has a lot of money to spend on its computer system (and buy MS commercials without any critics) then go for a split solution (or MS Wondows). That is much more complicated solution than it needs to be. I would go for non expecive and simple solution than spending time and money on a mor complicated solution.
 
Old 06-01-2005, 09:57 PM   #17
Frost
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Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Fennville, MI
Distribution: Mandrake 10.0
Posts: 25

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Rep: Reputation: 15
We've got Mandrake 10.0 and SuSE 9.2 and both work well with SATA and AMD 64 bit processors. I know, because they instaleld on my machine at home. Also I am toying with the thought of buying either the Linux SuSE for Dummies book from Amazon.com for aroun 19.00 that incules a DVD of SuSE 9.3, or the Mandrake 10.1 Powertoys book for around 38.00 and it includes a DVD of Mandrake 10.1 on it as well. I am a LOT more conmfortable with Mandrake than I have in any of the other Linux distros I've seen

What is a snap server?

Jim doesn't want to get away form Unix to windows because of the sytem. He want to go to Windows for the unity. 95 percent of the time we are using Windows programs, from Access databases, to Exel spreadsheets, MS Word documents.. and I know this can all be found in open Office, but we aso use HEAVY into Adobe products to the tune of a few thousand dollars. Our labels are built on the Adobe Pagemaker systems. Illustrator CS, InDesign CS, and so on. Our office manager uses Peachtree and said she will quit if we switch over to Quickbooks. There are times I go in there just to help her out figuring out how to do some simple PC things. Linux would really baffle her. Adobe, Peachtree, Exel spreadhseets, Access databases, they are here to stay. Jim just thought it prudent to go with something that was 'accross the board' unity rather than a system here a cross over there. The programs he wrote in C++ work ok but are kind of annyoing in their structure sometimes. I would like to be able to change them just a bit, but they are coded in pretty hard. The database for the mailing list is 'manually' entered, and has to be printed out (file) in ASCI text file for the guy that does the shipping of our newsletter. There is too much repeat data entry from people and as such there is room for error and there are error too. People that buy wine at the checkout do not have a printed slips telling them about our wine or specials, nor do we automatically have them on our database for future references when they come back in. Close out at the end of the day is done manually. There are now Point Of Sales programs that do inventory control, customer record keeping, close out reports, data backups, and it goes on and on. Our unix programs, although do work in their own right, could easily be replace by something a little more upscale. They are more akin to early "DOS" programs, with menu screens and simple querries. They do not interact with each other. In other words, when the cash register rings in a sale of 1 case of Riesling wine, the information about the sale goes no further in the system other than to calculate the amount of tender, etc. *Unix POS cash register*. We have reached a point of growth that we need to step beyond the DOS files, the mundane human data entry of every point of the process. There are even processes that complete and print out and still need further input with pencil in areas that could completely be filled out (form tools) during the creation of the printed work order.

Jim is afraid if we migrate from SCO Unix to Linux that the original Unix programs will follow over with no improvements.. and on that one issue I agree. Would you buy a Lexus automobile and have them put in a slant 6 carburetor style engine, with all mechanical spark advance and manual windows and seat controls? (maybe you would LOL) but that is just an analogy of having the Linux system be created and then moving OLD progrmaming features from one box to another.. all we accomplished is preventing a HD crash on an old computer.. we still have the same old stuff we always had. Still manually enter data, still have progrmas that do not talk to each other and share info between the programs. And that is what the biggest debate at the winery is today.. not the fact that this Linux would work or what, but if we go with Linux we are guaranteed to keep outdated resources.

Last edited by Frost; 06-01-2005 at 10:04 PM.
 
Old 06-02-2005, 11:48 AM   #18
Jaxn
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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Sweden
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 142

Rep: Reputation: 15
(Where I write Unix you should read any linux och unix distribution)

I has not talked about Unix on desktop. I'm talking about running Unix on a server. And MS Windows users will not see any difference if you run the server on a MS Windows or Unix-machine.
Except for the Unix software you already have.

It's prob not an easy task to translate those programs to MS Windows. You will save money on not doing the transfer to MS Windows.
You'll spend less money on a Unix server than on a MS Windows server.
You'll prob. have much less hassel with a Unix server than a MS Windows server.
Easier to protect a Unix server then a MS Windows server.
Easier to manage from other places (like log on whith SSH to your machine from your palm top whith a modem or pref. GPRS-type of service, that is internet on phone).

The question about the software is another issue. It hasn't anything to do with which server you are running. It's about if you would put resorces to develop your programs. That is, it's NOT conneted to what is best server for your organization.
Solve one thing at a time. If you upgrade to a mordern Unix, you at least are not lost with NO software working in your IT-system.
You should prob. build a web based solution that solves lot of things (like interface and lock in effects in the future).

ALL new IT-infrastructure should ALLWAYS be built with a web interface. MUCH more flexibiliy and easy mantainence then with ordinary programs. With a fast system and good design, it should be fast enough for your users. Another benifit is that you won't be locked to one OS (let it be Linux/Unix/MS Windows).
(No, you do NOT need to let everyone on internet use your IT-system, but you could let them do that, if needed. It's your choise).

Last edited by Jaxn; 06-02-2005 at 11:56 AM.
 
Old 06-02-2005, 04:55 PM   #19
thorn168
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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Distribution: Vector Linux 5.1 Std., Vector Linux 5.8 Std., Win2k, XP, OS X (10.4 & 10.5)
Posts: 344

Rep: Reputation: 42
Frost,

Here is the link to the snapappliance website:

http://www.snapappliance.com/
 
Old 06-02-2005, 05:18 PM   #20
thorn168
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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Distribution: Vector Linux 5.1 Std., Vector Linux 5.8 Std., Win2k, XP, OS X (10.4 & 10.5)
Posts: 344

Rep: Reputation: 42
Frost,

The latter half of your post goes on about POS requirements that your company would like to have.

Migrating the data from your current system to a newer system can be expensive and messy data wise.

If you want consultation regarding POS migration and integration then you should create a budget, spec out the work to be done and make a job posting for a consultant who would help you with this business need.

I am available but I can not do business consultation in a Linux message board.

Thorn
 
Old 06-03-2005, 12:08 AM   #21
Frost
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Fennville, MI
Distribution: Mandrake 10.0
Posts: 25

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
We have SCO Unix and a 10 user license. We cannot use this software on a new machine. Why? it is so outdated that it will not recognize the new hardware of modern computers. So, if we go with a new hardware configured computer, we have to buy a fairly recent version of SCO Unix.. (kind of like buying into a gamble of longivity). Software for a 10 user license is very expensive for a new moder Unix softare with Vision FS and extras.

We use the Unix box only as a warehouse for 1. Unix program that we access of of our Windows XP machines 2. Hard drive space that is backed up on a nightly basis, but is simply just a 'common' ground for our data of our windows machines.

If we buy Linux, we will recompile the old Unix software to work on the Linux machine. Our old tankbook records, our old lab calcuation programs, the CASH register software that has to be manually entereed at the end of the day. All these old programs will be transferred over to Linux.

I can build a PC for a fraction of a snap server. We are networked at the winery already. RAID is out. He wan'ts no part of it. Our slowest part of our network is our RJ-45 ehternet system. 10/100 MB/s top speeds, so if the Hard drive is a super fast SCSI you still only get data across from the server machine to the destktop machine at a maximum of 100mb/s.

Linux will not ever reside as a client computer. It will only reside as a file server.

We are on a workgroup not a domain. We have Satellite interent access that has NAT enabled, along with router firewall. Access into the system is extremely difficult. Adminiistration of the server from a remote computer via the internet is out. Administrating the server via other comptuers is already a givinen as anyone can log in as root. anytime. Server runs in full enabled mode, with all user rights at the moment. ONLY reason we have windows stuff on there is he never had a way of backing up the files before in Windows. I now use Nero back it up on one of the computers and it backs up nightly to another HD.

All the nice little features of Open office, hard drake, configuring your desktop, etc etc are moot. Most of the time the monitor is shut off on the server. Only programs you access via ICE.TCP (throught J River Software) is the unix programs written in C++. They are old style click on-a-letter to open up a separate screen, type programs. Nothing very GUI, mostly plain jane, and rather annoying at many times. for instance, if I mess up and do not get the right vineyards choosen for a spary order, I get to start all over from the beginning again. There is not back button, no edit button, no delete or modify button, only start over. Once I write a spray order it's history. there is no record of every having written it. no data is changed, no entry is made.. I get to finish filling out the rest of the spray order with a pencil, and if I loose it or the vineyard manager looses it, I have to start all over and create another on.

At least in Access you can create reports, link files to databases, bring in Excel calcualtions and have the form printed in as many parts as you want and have the program automatically flag for low product or chemicals.
Most of the programs work fine, but they are really really outdated.
 
  


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