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Old 11-08-2013, 11:49 PM   #1
jason41987
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LMDE or debian?


currently, im using LMDE, linux mint debian edition, supposed to be 100% compatible with debian and said i could even use debians repositories..

one of the reasons i went with LMDE over debian (this was about a week ago) was because i liked mints default packages... like the MATE desktop which i prefer so much more than lxde, xfce, or cinnamon.. i wasnt sure debian had this desktop as an option, but now that i think about it if im using this desktop on LMDE, it has to be getting its updated packages from debian

so my question is.. should i just stick with what i have, or go with straight debian testing without the LMDE branding? or is it just really not worth the effort to switch?.. should i just add debian repos for more up to date hardware?.. even read with a few tweaks i can actually convert LMDE into debian by changing a couple configs, deleting all mint repositories, adding the debian ones, and doing a dist-upgrade...

can anyone make a case for me to switch to pure debian?
 
Old 11-09-2013, 12:04 AM   #2
k3lt01
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MATE is a good desktop and has its own repositories, it is also being incorporated into Debian with its own dedicated Debian team (not just MATE devs but Debian people working on packaging MATE for Debian.

I have used, and still have an LMDE partition on this laptop, but prefer Debian with MATE compared to LMDE MATE because I can make a much lighter OS than the default LMDE.

Check my signature for details or head to the MATE forums.
 
Old 11-09-2013, 12:09 AM   #3
jason41987
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if i switch to regular debian.. should i reformat my / drive and install debian.. keeping /home of course, or add the debian repositories and convert?. i think if i make the switch i should do it now when im only a week into LMDE
 
Old 11-09-2013, 12:15 AM   #4
k3lt01
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I'll just add that I did a new install last weekend that has LibreOffice, Iceweasel (Firefox), Icedove (Thunderbird), VLC, Banshee, Dropbox, Pidgin, Skype, Chromium (for flash compatibility), Brasero for disk burning, full networking and printing with the full MATE desktop environment and it has 1104 packages installed which is much lower than a standard LMDE install.
 
Old 11-09-2013, 12:20 AM   #5
k3lt01
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If you want it clean then I'd do a clean install.

If you haven't modified LMDE much by adding extras you could just clean up LMDE as much as you can considering its only a week old.. I did a tutorial on installing MATE on Debian and then cleaning up Gnome duplicates so you still have a desktop that works without having to add more. Using your current system may not be as clean as it could be but it will save you alot of time and possibly downloads as well depending on what LMDE update pack your system currently has.
 
Old 11-09-2013, 06:28 AM   #6
jason41987
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well, ill download a copy of debian testing and install that later today
 
Old 11-09-2013, 08:32 AM   #7
jason41987
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hmm.. seems debian is like.. 3 DVDs, in my time i used debian before, long time ago.. it was my understanding the second and third discs were always just collection of packages you dont need, that can be found on their repos anyway.. hmm.. dont want to get stuck with a lot of hardware drive space used up by multiple applications that do the same thing.. i should probably go with a net-install to install to a command line and then use the package manager to only add the stuff i want.. like i did when i was using arch.. you know, customize my desktop that way
 
Old 11-09-2013, 01:19 PM   #8
k3lt01
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I just get DVD1, you don't need the others unless you want more than the standard desktops. Netinst is good if you know what to do. understand that to install MATE you need to add the MATE repositories.
 
Old 11-09-2013, 03:33 PM   #9
DavidMcCann
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Why switch to Debian? LMDE provides a buffer: instead of getting a pure rolling release, you get the new features checked out and delivered in monthly packages, so there's less chance of an update breaking things. Debian may have people packaging Mate, but the last time I looked Clem was both producing Mint and co-ordinating the Mate project. Lastly, Mint provides at least some of the configuration tools that Debian lacks (of course that only affects a few people, who need to do out-of-the-way things).
 
Old 11-09-2013, 04:04 PM   #10
jason41987
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ive actually decided to stick with debian.. one reason was is the mouse and keyboard wouldnt even work with the installer, and it got me to thinking, what packages come default on mint with MATE that i dont like... firefox was all i could think of (prefer chromium) and that was simple enough to get rid of.. guess im just going to stay with LMDE, and if i have any need to upgrade ill just convert to debian repos
 
Old 11-09-2013, 04:51 PM   #11
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
Why switch to Debian? LMDE provides a buffer: instead of getting a pure rolling release, you get the new features checked out and delivered in monthly packages, so there's less chance of an update breaking things. Debian may have people packaging Mate, but the last time I looked Clem was both producing Mint and co-ordinating the Mate project. Lastly, Mint provides at least some of the configuration tools that Debian lacks (of course that only affects a few people, who need to do out-of-the-way things).
I'm not sure what your point is regarding Clem. I'm not going to launch into a Clem bashing campaign but I do think his role with MATE needs to be seen in its correct light. As far as I am aware he is only one part of the MATE leadership, unlike the myth that Clem is MATE (because he started MATE etc, actually Perberos who uses Arch started MATE). He is the coordinator because of his coordinating ability, Stefano and Steve are lead developers and Clem does some developing as does Perberos. Stefano is the spokesperson because it is a natural talent he has so each individual does what they are best at. Clem is no bigger or better than anyone else in MATE. Having said that Clem seems to spend most of his time working on Cinnamon with by far the majority of development and bug squashing in MATE is done by Stefano and Steve (check the github page and you'll see Clem isn't even a member).

With regards to LMDE being a buffer well it can also keep bugs in the system for longer purely because updates are done in update packs instead of being roled out when the fix is available. You are also stuck with the features Mint wants instead of what the user wants. While many people are happy with Mints defaults others are not.

What configuration tools does mint provide that are really needed? Yes I am aware you said it only affects a few people but you made the point anyway.

With regards to Debian and MATE, nearly everything in Debian (DEs especially) is handled by packaging teams. They get the source from upstream and they package it and maintain it within Debian so it works with Debian. They also handle security issues in testing and stable packages within Debian itself, especially stable considering it is not a moving target.

There are positives and negatives for each choice (Debian vs LMDE). What is important is the choice isn't clouded by inconsequential matters and personality cults.
 
Old 11-09-2013, 09:34 PM   #12
jason41987
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i tried installing plain debian from the netinst.. it didnt work at all, no mouse or keyboard detection or something otherwise i would have installed it.. but cant install something that simply wont allow me to install it, ya know?.. wonder if its just netinst images that do this?.. but reguardless, if i install debian my goal is to install to a comman-line system, no desktop environment so i can add the MATE repos and install a mate version of debian without having to install some crappy DE just to have to try to remove it later.. can i deselect all the desktop environments during the installation process of debian, and come out with a command line system only and build from there?
 
Old 11-09-2013, 09:40 PM   #13
jason41987
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hmms.. somethings wrong, not letting me edit my previous post so i can simply add to it.. but this is what i was going to add

i noticed one reason LMDE can be a bit of a PITA.. and that is that its at a sort of limbo state between ubuntu and debian.. i seem to be finding a lot of fixes for certain issues available in debian, but dont seem to work in mint.. and theres no PPA which is a big loss as well.. use some PPA stuff on family computers, but i actually miss archlinux AUR more.. an alternative for me would be to learn more about compiling and building my own packages as needed, so to not have to rely on using someone elses created packages which i think will be better for me in the long run.. and im starting to REALLY not like canonical in general, so yeah, i would enjoy a switch to debian
 
Old 11-09-2013, 09:58 PM   #14
k3lt01
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First things first, using PPAs in Debian can be very hit and miss and it is not something I would recommend doing. Most PPA packages are built using Ubuntu and Ubuntu is not compatible with Debian. If you must use PPAs stick to Ubuntu releases of Mint.

Debian Testing iso images are done on a weekly build basis. Sometimes they work straight up with no problems other times they don't work as expected. They are testing releases so bugs do happen. The machine I am typing on right now is the new install I mentioned before. I used CD1 and unticked everything, so the only things that were installed is the absolute basic Debian command line system. I then used a live CD and chrooted into it to finish it off. As of this moment I have 1168 packages installed (I made it my print server so other family members can print using their Windows 7 machines).
 
Old 11-09-2013, 09:58 PM   #15
Randicus Draco Albus
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If you can install Arch, you should be able to sleep while installing Debian.
Quote:
can i deselect all the desktop environments during the installation process of debian, and come out with a command line system only
Yes.
Quote:
it didnt work at all, no mouse or keyboard detection or something
Or something?
If you are using the n-curses installer, there is no mouse. Just Space, Tab and Enter keys.

Stable is the best option, until one is familiar with the system, but that will not be an option if having Mate is your primary concern.
 
  


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