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Linux - Distributions This forum is for Distribution specific questions.
Red Hat, Slackware, Debian, Novell, LFS, Mandriva, Ubuntu, Fedora - the list goes on and on... Note: An (*) indicates there is no official participation from that distribution here at LQ.

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Old 12-18-2001, 05:17 PM   #1
el_felipe
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...just a perfect distro


Slack, Deb, RedHat, SuSE...

I've tried even more and still can't find the perfect one: solid but not too newbie-unfriendly (like SuSE) with a good package managing system (like Deb), stable (like Slack) and blond haired (like RedHat ?!? he he)...

I think everybody is asking the community a distro able to become a standard to refer to as regards packaging, scripting etc.

Maybe RedHat could be nearest to get this but in the sense that they "imposed" some standards of their own. Perhaps Debian could be but, like someone says, it makes you feel kinda marxist...

I'm not saying I don't like to have a variety to choose from... but I'm afraid the only way to have such a distro is building one's own, and this is quite difficult.

Unfortunately it seems in this seek for a solution, the only answer is "try 'em all", and this is affecting other aspects of the opensource scene.

Think of the most famous desktop around. KDE and Gnome didn't manage to create a common base unique to all: imagine the ability to choose to have one single desktop with the same way of treating icons.

Newer apps do the same, in conflict for the supremacy: for example kword, abiword, staroffice weren't able to suggest a common extension for wordprocessors files...

But this is taking too much space... forgive me!

Thanx for reading this anyway, I hope you let me know what you think about it!

el felipe

Last edited by el_felipe; 12-18-2001 at 05:21 PM.
 
Old 12-18-2001, 08:09 PM   #2
taz.devil
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I think you just described Windows.
 
Old 12-18-2001, 08:28 PM   #3
trickykid
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i agree.. the only way to have your own OS of what you actually want... is to build your own.. hmm.. one of the many reasons i am dong the linux from scratch project..
its not too difficult, just mess with any linux distro, learn the basics of administering it and you should be able to make your own from the LFS project with no serious problems.
 
Old 12-18-2001, 08:39 PM   #4
el_felipe
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...yeah that's an answer!

i wrote that because I recently installed a RH 7.2 for a friend and since I'm aware of the limits of linux as a desktop (even if things are changing), I installed 3 or 4 cd burner, 3 or 4 Desktop environment, 3 or 4 office suites (!) and so on, and none of them was going to satisfy the needs of this guy...

He was of course more excited with the server capabilities of linux (www) and in this field, if you notice, there is _one_ major project (apache)...

BTW if I wanted to exalt windows' easy everything I would post in www.windowsquestion.org

ciao!

el felipe
 
Old 12-18-2001, 11:13 PM   #5
finegan
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el_felipe,

That's exactly how I feel. I hope LFS is the answer to my happy distro.

Cheers,

Finegan
 
Old 12-19-2001, 12:02 AM   #6
gui10
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pardon my petty ignorance...

what does the acronym LFS stand for?
 
Old 12-19-2001, 12:41 AM   #7
finegan
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Linux From Scratch, build your own distro from Bash up through to the kernel and then add what you want. It isn't exactly for the beginner, but then again Linux really isn't yet either, so its the fastest way I can think of to become not-a-beginner.

Cheers,

Finegan
 
Old 12-19-2001, 04:44 AM   #8
el_felipe
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...yes finegan, maybe LFS could be a solution, but do you have an idea about _how many_ LFS' are out there?

I wrote about the necessity of some uniformity of the bases upon which to develop apps and everything else (which has, I want to point it out, nothing to see with microsoft monocromatic splendour). So LFS is just good for a single need, but could a single need generate a standard?

"...yes if you are P. Volkerding (he he)"

ok, thanx for your opinion!

el felipe
 
Old 12-19-2001, 05:23 AM   #9
bluecadet
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well, i think that's what keeps linux alive, not having a single standard. if you do, then it's very hard for new ideas to come through, even if that one standard is still open. That kind of thing is what makes windows suck so badly. it can of course be extrememly convenient, but when at the end of the day the standard applications you install are no where near as good as they could be, you're losing out on a lot of potential benefits from just having one standard.

but of course, from a newbie POV a single strandard IS good. but then unless you were a 'nosey' newbie, you'd probably think there was only one... kde. rpm. qt. well, you prolly wuoldn't know what qt is.. but it's easy to be not get the big picture when you're new.
 
Old 12-19-2001, 06:55 AM   #10
gui10
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bluecadet:
i don't think el_felipe can be too much of a newbie if he's already thinking about LFS... hoho

finegan:
so hm... ok.. but how practical is LFS beyond a specialized user?
how about an administrator team who has to look after say 1000 workstations and several severs that support them... i think they'd be looking for vendor support rather than say doing LFS? (time and convenience issue). if he buys them pre-installed, he still has to configure/administer/maintain them... don't think he'd be heading for the LFS?

wouldn't they also nullify the support he would be getting if he did an LFS?

in any case, hey finegan, why don't u get a Finegan/GNU Linux project going, aiming for the minimalist Linux user?
i'm sure you'll find many supporters, including those in this forum...
 
Old 12-19-2001, 10:36 AM   #11
el_felipe
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bluecadet,

I wasn't talking about newbies' precooked solutions... I wonder why it seems so difficult to accept the idea of the convenience of a leading standard.

Once again "standard" is by no means to be intended like "levelling"; building a standard means "cooperation" at basic levels, to me. I've not written about imposing standards, like microsoft has done. And I'll tell you that I think GNU/Linux (at some level at least) could be more and more involved in the commercial policy of the industry if the community won't be able to "suggest" alternatives (think of MacOSX...)

But, since I'm a "desktop" user, I may have a distorted idea of what one may expect from the community.

Thanks for your opinion!

el felipe

PS: I'm not really planning to make a LFS rigth now..!
 
Old 12-19-2001, 11:12 AM   #12
finegan
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Okay, I'm writing this one from Lynx, so I apologize if this post looks rather crooked. When I said before that I was hoping LFS would be the perfect distro, I was talking about for me. I've long ago made my decisions on which distro I would use for which job. Slack for a server, Deb for a server on an OLD machine, Flip a coin on Mandy or RH for a workstation. Definately Mandrake for a newbie.

Anyway, I agree that the Linux world could do for some standardization in the world of its desktops, Gnome AND KDE is a bit much, but really we also have to realise we've been homogonized by years of Microsuck so we're a little less open to a flexible and fluid design. El_felipe (and I hope I got the spelling right, I can't check back), the Linux world does have some standards, but they're always ignored by one distro or the other. POSIX compliance, everyone has that. Linux File system standard... all of them. RPMS? pretty much everyone but Slack and Deb. SysV init? Everyone but Slack.

On the upside to the GUI conflict is that the competition is breeding a lot of inovation, and instead of being fueled by a paycheck, its running on the enthusiasm of the coders. It seems that there's a major change to KDE and Gnome every six to eight weeks. To keep from sounding like a total pinko bleeding heart though, I have no idea what I would ever need with 12 file manages: sawfish, nautalus, twm, blackbox, enlightenment, midnight commander, enough!

Alright, I've rambled on long enough and I can't see what I've been typing... bloody burstnet.com

Cheers,

Finegan
 
Old 12-19-2001, 02:27 PM   #13
taz.devil
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Quote:
Originally posted by finegan
El_felipe (and I hope I got the spelling right, I can't check back), the Linux world does have some standards, but they're always ignored by one distro or the other. POSIX compliance, everyone has that. Linux File system standard... all of them. RPMS? pretty much everyone but Slack and Deb. SysV init? Everyone but Slack.


Cheers,

Finegan
So In the end, once again, it comes down to Slack leading the pack. All facts being true, I must say, Slack has kept closest to the ORIGINAL uniformity of Linux as finegan points out. No SysV, no RPM crap, not bloated and can serve as well if not better than any out there. Still uses tarballs and requires knowledge enough to run and install programs. Pro Slack am I? Damn skippy! Go Patrick!
 
Old 12-19-2001, 02:37 PM   #14
finegan
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I don't know if Slack has kept to an original uniformity. I don't think there much was one. Patrick just put it together, made it all work, figured out a way to package it on a million floppies, and shipped it. I think Slack's true grace comes from the fact that it doesn't feel the need to 'keep up with everyone' Redhat always ships with yesterday's kernel, tomorrow's Gcc. Anyone have any problems compiling stuff under RH7.0? Redhat's default file system is Ext3, which has always worked out well for me, but is still labelled 'Experimental' under the 2.4.16 kernel!

Slack is just more stable than carbon-12, by default, and if you want to get bleeding edge, there's stuff for that too.

Its also the only distro left (aside from the equally stable Debian), that doesn't get angry with its RPM database dependencies when you compile something from source. When compiling from source messes with your system, then there's something rotten in North Carolina.

Alright... I need a nap and a doughnut.

Cheers,

Finegan just thinks he's young enough to stay up until 5.

How did I just end up going off like that? I must remember:

/sbin/holywar | /dev/null
 
Old 12-19-2001, 03:49 PM   #15
el_felipe
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Ok

I'm clearly not questioning how stable slack or debian are, they surely are, I just say "hey what wonderful it would be if there weren't 20 -30 version of the same *.rpm" for example!

It could have sense to use a package like debian's "alien" to convert a standard *.rpm to a standard *.deb: real scripting "translation" would be allowed. And this also applies to the most hidden layers of the OS of course...

The standards finegan was writing about are so many and cover so different aspect that they cannot even be considered such, especially when you consider that every single distributor feels the "mission" to put things in his own way, no matter how "minor" the distro is.

Let me say that this can only generate confusion... not talking about slack, it has its own place since almost 10 years, but every single *linux released in the world adds some more entropy in it!

That's really no holywar, that's just questioning, and this is the right place to do it

el felipe
 
  


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