Hey guys. I'm ready to entirely replace my operating system with Linux, but I really want to figure out which distro is the best for giving me just enough trouble to learn. I don't think I want Ubuntu, because of stuff like the software center. Would debian be a good place to start? I don't know if I'm advanced enough for Arch Linux. I don't want everything handed to me, I guess is what I'm trying to say, which obviously is kind of ironic because I'm asking you guys to make one of the easiest decisions.
Thanks!

Slackware. I started with it and I'm glad I did.

When you have it installed, you have a fully functioning Linux system. When you start installing software and configuring your system, you learn.

Slackware does not offer to partition your hard drive for you; it expects you do to that. Once you are past that point, the installation is quite straightforward.

Also, choosing a first distro is not an easy decision, if only because there are so many to choose from. If search LQ for "choosing a distro" and similar strings, you will find no end of threads.

There is no official Slackware Live CD for you to sample, but Porteus is Slackware based. You could take a look at it.

The question we all face in the beginning, "Which distro to get started with?"

IMO, there are a couple of points you want to consider when starting out:

* user support - You will have many questions so you don't need to start with a niche distro with a half dozen users. Most all the major distros have active support communities but each has a different vibe. Some are focused on the new user and will explain how to turn your computer on and off, and others expect your questions to be much more advanced.

* hardware support - Depending on the machine you intend to use, hardware support may be a big deciding factor. Googling the model of your computer and the name of the distro usually will reveal most hardware issues.

* your commitment - How deeply do you want to go with Linux? If you just want an OS with few issues and no tinkering, your choice will be very different than if you want to deeply dig into how Linux works and what it can do for you. Updates on some distros will break your system from time to time.

I personally like Debian. I like the Debian Social Contract.

HTH
Dave

I mean, I wouldn't consider myself a computer novice, I've built plenty of machines, and I'm good with windows. I'm just looking to expand my territory into Unix. I feel like a power user can get a lot more out of linux, and that just appeals to me. I know slackware will probably be more complex than Debian will be, I just don't know if that's a good or a bad thing.

Is that your only reason? While I am not a fan of Ubuntu (anymore) I have to admit it was the distro that started my Linux journey and because of that I will be ever thankful BUT Ubuntu has other issues apart from software center that would stop me from recommending it over another distro.

Yes, IF you are willing to do some work to set it up.

Distros like Ubuntu, Mint, and a few others do hand it all to you. They have everything, not including the toilet and kitchen sink, preconfigured for the vast majority of machines. Distros like Debian don't come preconfigured and because of this may be just what you are looking for.

Some would say the education you will receive in learning Slackware will easily outweigh any complexity.

Slackware, Debian, and Gentoo for the most part all suffer from the thinking that they are "too complex" for beginners. IMO, it's all what you start with and get used to. I have used Slackware and found it really easy to customize. I just started with Debian.

HTH
Dave

I guess a lot of people out there who want to use linux want it to be a familiar experience, and don't want to have to do whatever it is that I really want to learn. I am very intimidated by Gentoo though. Installing it seems like it would take me a year.
I guess I'll just pick between Debian and Slackware, the winner being the one that downloads faster. I guess this should work out like learning a language; immersion is better than flat out studying.

Either one will fulfill your needs easily. Don't limit yourself to only one though. In time, a lot of what you learn in one distro will carry over to others.

HTH
Dave

I say, try each flavor of Ubuntu to see what you like. (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu) Linux is a big place. Find out what you like the most about it, then build your own preferred desktop yourself. There are three main desktop environments in Linux. KDE, Gnome, and Xfce. KDE and Gnome are like night and day in difference. Xfce is similar to Gnome 2, and is the lightest of the desktops.

Dabble around with an easy distro like the ones stated above. Figure out which desktop environment and software you like best, then try building a system from the ground up.

After that, I would try Arch or Gentoo. They are both more advanced distros. However, they both have excellent documentation to follow. That's the best learning tool IMO to learn more along the way.
Both Arch and Gentoo start from the ground up, and only what YOU want gets built. I prefer Gentoo, but Arch is a better choice if you have older hardware. Gentoo compiles nearly everything from source, and is the easiest distro to compile your own kernel with.

fedora IF you WANT to learn by fixing things
Now to be fair fedora 16 is a LOT better than fedora 4 and 5 were .

for the most part it is stable BUT updates can and DO break things

the code is , for the most part, SO NEW ( the newest of the new) that a lot of programs will need hacking to build from source
to update the 1 year old programs to the NEWEST VERSION of things ( like gcc compiler)

so IF you DO want to get your hands a bit "dirty" and fix things under the hood then it is a good choice

just do the research so that you KNOW EXACTLY what you are getting into
-- like the reinstalls EVERY 6 MONTHS --

Arch and slack are also good BUT not so good if you have NO Linux experience -- there is a very BIG learning curve .

OpenSUSE if you want a STABLE and almost never need to fix things OS -- you will not learn all that much BUT you WILL get your work done .

If I was starting all over again getting back into Linux, I would not change my choices I made a long time ago. I chose as my top 2 Debian & Slackware. I started with Slack and still really like it. I did what others have suggested and ran multiple distro and settled on what is now my favorite. Gentoo is always termed as something for someone to mess and tinker with, that is only somewhat true...

Pick the one you think you will like and roll with it. If you end up not liking it or thinking it is so-so, switch it.

Debian is a great distro, so go for it and enjoy. Keep us informed of your journey.

Slackware, what could be better?
Well, if your a tinkerer then maybe LFS, Gentoo, etc.
But I vote Slackware.

Slackware, if only for the learning experience. Debian, like most other distros, has its own little ways of doing things that won't always translate easily to other distros if you ever switch. Slackware, on the other hand, is pure 'vanilla' linux. All packages are the whole, unaltered versions from the various upstream sources (most distros inject their own customisations into many packages, or split them into 3-4 parts for some reason). You have to do nearly everything by hand and often in the command line, so you won't learn to be reliant on a specific distro's method of handling packages and configuration. Slackware can be a pain if you don't know what you're doing (and you won't at first) and you'll feel lost for a while, but you really will learn more with Slackware than you will with any other distro aside from maybe Gentoo or LFS.

Also, LinuxQuestions' Slackware forum is one of the most useful resources around. I'd still be lost in sauce if I hadn't had the community here to help me get on my feet. If you pick Slackware, you'll have a lot of questions. Don't be afraid to ask them.

Remember that Slackware is the only distro with no forum, so they all come here!

There is no distro that's the best to learn with. Just because things are made easy doesn't mean you can't look under the bonnet and see how they work, or that you can't do it the hard way if you want to. When I've configured Gnome 2, I've used the GUI tools, gconftool in the command line, and direct editing of the configuration files.

You also need to consider whether you want your knowledge to be portable. For example, you can learn about Lilo by using Slackware, but 9 out of 10 distros use Grub instead. One thing about Fedora is that a lot of the experimental stuff they do ends up in the mainstream later.

What is wrong with software center and especially what is wrong with "stuff like" it?

I don't use Ubuntu enough to recall which GUI package manager is available in which version, nor which (other than synaptic) works well.

I use Synaptic (a great GUI package manager) in Mepis and I have used it in some versions of Ubuntu. I highly recommend it.

I used Debian first before discovering Mepis. Debian was very painful to start on. A lot of the pain was just not having any place to find the names of the best tools for whatever I was trying to do. Synaptic was available when I was using Debian and would have made my use of Debian much easier, but nothing told me I ought to use it. Mepis (several versions ago) beginner documentation suggested using synaptic for package management and suggested using konqueror, rather than info itself, for reading all the documentation that is a nightmare to navigate in info.

That is a surprisingly common, but I think foolish, attitude.

Learning works better when it is focused. Your attention should be on the specific thing you are trying to learn, not on all the tools you need to use to get access to what you're trying to learn.

You really should want to start with an installer and package manager and help file browser and other basic GUI tools that are easily usable by someone totally inexperienced in Linux. Using those tools, you can learn more advanced topics one at a time with focus.

A beginner oriented distro, such as Ubuntu doesn't ever lock you into the beginner selection of tools and methods. Linux is very flexible and modular. You can replace any beginner friendly GUI aspect of Ubuntu with any more powerful (usually meaning script-able) approach to the same task that you might find in some other Linux distribution.