All right, a week ago, I was in the bus with a friend and he told me "anyway, Linux only creates problems, everybody told me that they hat problems with it... It wrecked my cousin's computer, etc." (and I can't blame him cause when he installed Mandriva Discovery (that I had given him) he ended up after login with an empty blue screen, no right-click, etc. and as he wasn't good enough to unpartition his disk like i told him to do, he re-installed w$ over everthing) Cerebral Implosion.

I come back home, finish my (X)Ubuntu install, and again, Cerabral Implosion... I end up with a system with :

• no root passwd X_X (luckily sudo worked, when I gave it a dummy password (?), so I didn't have to hack my own computer by running passwd from the install cd...)
• My soudcard seamed to have been detected by the installer, 'cause Ubuntu knows it's name, but it is inexistant (not in lspci, not in nowhere)
• It used 14Mb of my 32Mb ram to load "volatile" modules, including an nvidia driver even if my gfx card is a silicon motion
• It was in English even if I had chosen French during installation

Not to mention the drastic speed, GDM which uses loads of memory, etc.

What I suggest is to start a project to create a linux distro in that spirit :
http://www.linux-xp.com/manifesto/
(The user wants it to work, he doesn't want to recompile his kernel), but in a GNU/GPL spirit.


Basicly, it should folow the following requirements (the rest raises from that) :

• Install in graphic mode
• When starting the installation, tell the user that if there's written "you can modify this choice afterwards" then he doesn't have to wreck his head off to be shure that he has chosen the right thing. Eg. Mdk 8 though my screen was 1024x768 instead of 800x600 and it was right, but if I chose 800x600 (thinking I woldn't be able to change it after), my graphics didn't work
• Allow an easy installation *from* w$ : just start a program that will change boot.ini and reboot, so that w$ loads the isntaller anyway; also provide the ability to install linux to a file instead of a partition. Tihis way my friend won't fromat his disk to uninstall...
• Provide a lightweight environnement & lightweight apps (see below)
• Put by default gtkrellmm, thunar (it is already by defautl, which is marvelous), etc.
• Have a control pannel like mdk's, it's nicer than severall small apps. And include wallpaper settings, etc. + integrate with kcontrol so there's only one control center.
• Put a few colors during startup (cf. gentoo...) -> it's less ugly and it's not that heavy
• Include a "tour" like window's or mandrake's. But better. With tutorials for Gimp, OOo, etc. And ask the user for a basic theme to start with. Not everybody will like the (x)ubuntu theme. Some will prefer w$-3.1-like, others vista-inspirat-like.
• Tell users they can find hel on forums. You can't blame them otherwise.

A few bugs that could be fixed first :

• First, have a beter installer.
• Mdk 8 installed in graphic mode, but Xubuntu will need me to activate swap _before_ the partitionning step cause ram is already full ??? Err...
• Allow to put the computer to sleep duing the istall -> usefull for slow computers. I had to chroot on my partially installed system and modprobe apm for it to work (using my laptop's sleep key)
• The interface
• Simply re-write all apps so they can use any interface - from the basic X-utilities interface to a KDE interface, going through a lightweight GTK and Ncurses - so the user can choose to have speed or nice KDE and alike functionalities
• There could be a few specific enhancements for some interfaces, but most of the program should work with all of them.
• By lightweight GTK I meant without the small anims that fill up one's ram uselessly
• Add an autorun function for CDs so win-like autorun works.
• Make amarok faster (with this interface system)
• Fix stupid things
• These "volatile" drivers
• My floppy driver doesn't show anything in the partitionning tool. I expect to be able to format it from there.
• XFCE could halt/hibernate/reboot/etc without having GDM started...
• etc.

plus :

• Make the installer with different interfaces, including one with a 3D avatar wich guides you. I bet even vista won't have that.
• Make it easyer to modify
• Make it package-system-independent and distribution-independent, so it can be like a new kind of LSB, and so that a company can modify the installer/the whole distro for it to fit their needs.
• Make a 700Mb drivers-only CD. SO PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO FETCH THEM FROM THE NET (and install them, that's the worst of it)

If a similar project exists (making linux suitable for slow computers / users that want to have full speed, and making it more user-friendly), then I'll be suscribed to their mailing-list before sunday :-)
But I think there's a lot of work to be done.


To sum up, we must :

• Improve the installer
• Make another level in linux : instead of textmode-frontend, have textmode-frontend-inderface
• Make it faster (as fast as it was 5 yers ago, but with more drivers :-)
• Provide nice things, cause for the moment w$ _can_ be better : look at Windoiws XP Pro Titanium, WinLSD 3.5, Windows PNX, WinUranium, etc.

We coud base ourselves on (X)Ubuntu/Debian, but also on RH, or whaterver. Maybe Gentoo ?
I Hope someone's interested...

P.S. : I don't know what tags to pud apart from "Distro"...
P.P.S. : http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/ (just to make them go higher in their page rank)

you do know that by design ubuntu doesn't have a root password...? it's not meant to. i'd suggest you know your enemy before attacking it.
simply??? that's just bizarre. many distro's like fedora have replaced xlib tools with gtk2 fronted equivalents, but just rewritng everythign as a matter of course is just creating work for yourself...

plenty of noble ideas there, but i think you've got lost between the responsibilites of a distribution, a desktop enviornment etc... it's not a distro vendors place to make amarok run faster. if you want it to run faster, do that, and submit patches to KDE. (here's a tip though... dump KDE and associated apps if you want things to be fast.)

there are many ways to innovate and i'm not really seeing a huge amount of them here. one thing i'd love to see take a larger hold is the replacement of sysVinit scripts... in a similar way to gentoo, why not start services on a parallel-y (!!) executed dependency system. doing things in a row is slow and annoying for a desktop user.

driver cd's... there are a LOT of drivers, and work to varying level's. the most common and interesting drivers like those for graphics cards are non-redistributable due to their accompanying licenses.

textmode-frontend-interface?? huh??

your comments all seem to be just against faults you think you see in ubuntu... again.. know your enemy, install EVERY distro you can get your hands on and you'll probably realise that most of what you're listing is already done in various places, or worthwhile leaving alone!

All right, I didn't make myself quite clear, I apologize :
There are some things that are quite cool under linux
I am attacking nobody, cause every distro has it's own bugs/problems/weirdness.
I have tested :
Mandrake 8
Mandrake 10.0
Mandriva 2006
Ubuntu
XUbuntu
Debian
Knoppix
Knoppix Games
Slackware (an old one)
Gentoo (never managed to install it)
Fedora Core 3 or 4, can't remember
Aurox Live (several versions)
Etc.

So I think I know what a distro is :-D

Besides, I don't care if it's a distro's job to improve linux in general, but mandrake did it with their control panel, ubuntu keeps making modified versions of their packages, etc. And I don't think anything is going to improve if we sit back in our chairs and wait for it to happen...
Anyway, I said that it didn't have to be a "real" distro, it could be only a frame for distros : a good installer + some enhancements.

Actually, if you look at long-term, it's far easyer : If a new revolutionary desktop environement comes out (enlightenment 10.2 or other), developpers don't have to re-wirite everything so it's integrated with the new interface.

And If you like amarok/kaffeine/openoffice, you don't have to re-write them to work well with another interface (making a kde app work under gnome should then take less than a week).
By the way, do you know a KDE equivalent to Gimp ? A lightweight gimp using some old library (like the one in tcl/tk) instead of the latest-and-heavyest-gtk ?

I also know how to program in javascript/scheme/bash/a few others/not c, so I know ho much work this represents, but it seems to me that it's worth it.

well what mandrake did is similar to what i mentioned about redhat and fedora where system wide configuration details do come largely back towards the distro vendor as there's too much that the DE teams would need to do to make their tools work that way across the board. of course it may be nice to look at abstraction of distro config files as a project within itself.

saying things about kde apps working under gnome and such, i'll admit i can't stand KDE and it's bloated approch to functionality, but more often than not people get confused about 2 things, firstly the link between graphical toolkits and DE's. obviously GNOME and GTK are very very closely linked as are KDE and QT. but to say that somethign like gimp is a GNOME application is just wrong. sure GTK has good hooks into higher level gnome features like systems panels etc... but if they aren't there then it really doesn't matter a toss. As far as i am concerned the need to "convert" an application from KDE to GNOME just doesn't make sense to me. people who only use certain apps in certain environments need their head examining. obviosuly things like nautilus and whatever KDE has is too heavily integrated, but if a media app only works on one DE, then that's a badly written poor quality application.

Sure, but I can't use dcop to remotely control gimp. OK, ok there's no point in this, but some weirdos might want to do it .
And using Gimp in KDE loads another library, which slows down the system.

And I wouldn't mind using a file manager as light (and as pleasant...) as emelfm, but with thunar's functionalities !

Anyway, the target of this post was creating a flexible (so with something that allows the user to choose between several interfaces ), but also, and mainly, user-friendly...

Anyway, if you're not interested, I don't really care, I just hope someone else will be, cause it's too much work for me. I had already started a bash-based ncurses-like interface and I was starting to create some programs that would use it (the only one that was ever written was a DM to replace KDM/GDM/XDM), and be able to use something else (like an xdialog or similar based interface); but i was a lot of work, and I lost my 2000 codelines "library" in err... a harddisk repartitioning x_X.

heres and idea....do a bare minimum install with your favorite distro and build on that whatever packages you like and you need. then you'll have the perfect distro. also, the way your talking seems to be how linux got started to begin with. one person wasn't happy with a single system that ran on a specific piece of equipment and found another with the same problem and questions. and there you go....debian, gentoo, fedora, slackware, etc....sorry, just thought i'd add some to this thread.

making a distro is not easy, you have to be up for the challange...

do you think you are going to do all that on your own???

if you just post an idea on a forum people are not going to come running asking to help...

if you what to start a distro you need to begin by yourself, once people see that it is the real thing- they will help.

So good luck

i like that response pengu. and that is a great idea. start your distro and when you hit a snag, ask for help and i'm positive people will help you do your build. remember the key thing about open source, you have the access and permission to build on or rebuild and make improvements etc. good luck on this project if you choose to do it.

All right, i'll try to start it on my own (some day).
Does anyone know an XML parser that can be used with bash/sh/... ? I know that some exist for Python, but I'm realy a dummy in that language.

See you !

I've used Fluxbox and while it's not as pretty as KDE, it's REAL fast.

If you are interested in doing a more customized install, use Debian, but do a bare minimum install. Then, just apt what you need. Slackware is nice because you can choose what packages you want through the installer.

Now if you want to build a distro try Linux from Scratch and see where that goes (I haven't used it so I can't give any tips).

Hey jahvascriptmaniac the goals we seem to want to achieve are quite similar... are you interested in working together? Send me an email or reply here and we can start to work some things out.

Thanks.