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Old 09-11-2016, 09:50 PM   #16
Emerson
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When I'm traveling and need this most it will not work because I have no control over NAT.
 
Old 09-12-2016, 12:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerson View Post
When I'm traveling and need this most it will not work because I have no control over NAT.
This and the fact that I can't guarantee that the people I want to talk to know how to set up UPnP or that the Cable-Company supplied router I use will do it without making things overly insecure.
Sadly, for what I would use it for, the VPN solution is a non-starter for similar reasons -- I can't expect people to set up a VPN connection to my network.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinndalir View Post
I was close, the technique is called UDP hole punching. Skype does this also.
And this is why Ring isn't a viable cross-platform replacement for Skype. As I understand it Skype used* a combination of their own servers and nodes which weren't behind NAT (or which had allowed ports through) to initiate connections for those who could not change their network settings. If Ring could do something similar it would be a nice drop-in replacement for Skype but, until then, it's only really a tool for use on the same network or those with the skills and tools to use it.


*I believe that now all traffic goes through Microsoft the use of super-nodes (or whatever it is they called them) has probably stopped.
 
Old 09-12-2016, 02:50 AM   #18
gradinaruvasile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinndalir View Post
I was close, the technique is called UDP hole punching. Skype does this also.
Yes, but we were talking about upnp as it is working in ring right now, not what-ifs. They would have to modify the protocol itself for that.

@273:
You are right that vpn setup is not a solution for every possible contact, initially i was talking about practical possibilities of private communications, not inviting everybody to your vpn.
 
Old 09-12-2016, 12:02 PM   #19
Rinndalir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerson
it will not work because I have no control over NAT.
Control over NAT not required. See UDP hole punching, it's been around for at least 10 years.
 
Old 09-12-2016, 12:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gradinaruvasile
They would have to modify the protocol itself for that.
In what way would they have to modify the protocol? Why do say this? Share the details.

See Stun and Turn servers, these allow you to publish your ip to allow initiating the peer-to-peer UDP hole punch.
 
Old 09-12-2016, 12:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273
If Ring could do something similar it would be a nice drop-in replacement for Skype but
Ring can do better and it's still only in beta.

See Stun and Turn servers, read the ring.cx FAQ if you're interested in the details.
 
Old 09-12-2016, 12:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinndalir View Post
Ring can do better and it's still only in beta.

See Stun and Turn servers, read the ring.cx FAQ if you're interested in the details.
So I've to send anybody I wish to talk to the FAQ and instruct them how to set up Stun and Turn servers and have to do that myself for any WiFi hotspot I use?
That's a drop-in replacement for Skype? Really? For my dear old mom, my brother who uses Apple gear and doesn't want to know about configuration?
 
Old 09-16-2016, 01:14 PM   #23
Rinndalir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273
So I've to send anybody I wish to talk to the FAQ
Maybe you should read it first then help them.

Security and privacy are worthwhile to some. And to many they are not. Making it easy and free is the best way to make sure people use insecure products that make it easy to spy on everyone.
 
Old 09-16-2016, 01:31 PM   #24
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinndalir View Post
Maybe you should read it first then help them.

Security and privacy are worthwhile to some. And to many they are not. Making it easy and free is the best way to make sure people use insecure products that make it easy to spy on everyone.
I read the configuration guides which involved opening ports on my router and/or enabling the openining of ports on the fly with UPnP.
If you have a quick example of how ring can be installed on a Linux and Windows 8 machine without this please post the link!
I really wanted this to work and I'll admit I hate Microsoft and wish it and anything associated with it would just die. But, Ring seems useless.
 
Old 09-16-2016, 08:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273
I read the configuration guides which involved opening ports on my router and/or enabling the openining of ports on the fly with UPnP.
If you have a quick example of how ring can be installed on a Linux and Windows 8 machine without this please post the link!
I really wanted this to work and I'll admit I hate Microsoft and wish it and anything associated with it would just die. But, Ring seems useless.
Don't know windows but as for linux, if you're serious the ring.cx folks should be able to answer questions.
The Stun servers running on the internet allow two clients to identify themselves. This is a part of the UDP hole punching.

You'll have to do some more work if you seek the privacy ring.cx offers. Yes there are issues but I think a software like ring.cx needs that initial kick that projects get when people start using it. The guy in the ring.cx talk outlined the effect word of mouth can have for exponential growth, etc.

I don't know anything about other platform support but as you pointed out that is critical.
 
Old 09-17-2016, 01:05 AM   #26
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinndalir View Post
Don't know windows but as for linux, if you're serious the ring.cx folks should be able to answer questions.
The Stun servers running on the internet allow two clients to identify themselves. This is a part of the UDP hole punching.

You'll have to do some more work if you seek the privacy ring.cx offers. Yes there are issues but I think a software like ring.cx needs that initial kick that projects get when people start using it. The guy in the ring.cx talk outlined the effect word of mouth can have for exponential growth, etc.

I don't know anything about other platform support but as you pointed out that is critical.
So ring is just another secure communication channel for people who are willing and able to spend their time configuring networks. Nothing wrong with that but it's absolutely not a replacement for Skype and its ilk.
 
  


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