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Old 03-23-2019, 03:07 PM   #1
hmazuji
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is it me, or is it the whole industry standard - booting


i've noticed that my bios is asking me which device do i want to boot. boot options, f11, is the very first question my computer wants to know when it is first powered on
so, why is microsoft wanting to install a boot loader on my drive ? i don't want a boot loader on my drive when my bios is doing this. if i could or wanted to disable the boot options in bios, then maybe i would need one installed on my drive
so now this applied to grub as well. i do not want to and do not care to configure grub for boot options when my bios is doing this for me
how do i install linux without using grub, but only the boot sequence i tell it in bios
 
Old 03-23-2019, 03:16 PM   #2
freemedia2018
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The bios only selects a device. It then loads the bootloader on that device.

If you have two bootloaders, and two devices, the bios lets you select which bootloader-- it isn't a substitute.

For example, you may have a bootloader on a DVD and on your HDD. If your bios selects the DVD, you get the bootloader on the DVD. If you select the HDD, you get the bootloader installed there.

If you have run isohybrid on the file used to make the DVD, you can dd the DVD (with its bootloader) onto the HDD, though you will still need the bios to select the drive. You will also need the bootloader that you just put onto the HDD when you ran dd.

Note that dd erases everything on the HDD-- it is not the best way to make a bootable HDD. It doesn't really avoid there being a bootloader either-- there still is one. You can change the settings so that your bootloader automatically selects one option-- with or without a delay. That's probably what you want.

Last edited by freemedia2018; 03-23-2019 at 03:18 PM.
 
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Old 03-23-2019, 03:48 PM   #3
hmazuji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemedia2018 View Post
The bios only selects a device. It then loads the bootloader on that device

If you have two bootloaders on two devices, the bios lets you select which bootloader
it is the industry standard (both linus & m.s.) to hijack the entire device, preventing another operating system from being able to use it, and the bootloader is the crux of their machinations

why will the operating systems not install without a bootloader, which is now a vestige of useless things from the past

as far as i see it, the only purpose of a bootloader is to prevent another o.s. installation
 
Old 03-23-2019, 03:52 PM   #4
Tonus
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is it me, or is it the whole industry standard - booting

You can run multiple OS with grub, including MS Windows.

Good to have the choice of the device.

Good to have the choice (to load any distro or OS) with grub.
 
Old 03-23-2019, 05:09 PM   #5
yancek
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Quote:
why will the operating systems not install without a bootloader, which is now a vestige of useless things from the past
Well, you can install without a bootloader. If you have another OS installed, you can use that bootloader to boot the system. If you have no bootloader installed then obviously it will not boot and it is certainly not "a vestige of useless things from the past'. All you get in the BIOS is code pointing to files on the computer/partition whether it is UEFI or a Legacy install. Time to do some serious reading.
 
Old 03-23-2019, 07:02 PM   #6
michaelk
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That's how the PC works. The BIOS has always had a boot order where you selected which device is the first, second and so on i.e DVD, USB, first HDD. Modern BIOS/EUFI mother boards also have a menu where you can manually select the boot device without the need to modify its configuration. There might be a configuration that always shows the menu which should be some setting to disable it from being displayed all the time.

This is not the bootloader. Most devices, operating systems need a bootloader. Once the BIOS passes control to the boot device it just executes the code at it's starting sector or whatever which is typically a bootloader like grub.

Last edited by michaelk; 03-23-2019 at 07:09 PM.
 
Old 03-25-2019, 03:29 PM   #7
jefro
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"it is the industry standard (both linus & m.s.) to hijack the entire device"

It may indeed seem that this is the case. Yes, one will have to understand how an OS installer works (or doesn't work) to provide what you may wish.
 
Old 04-01-2019, 06:31 PM   #8
mrmazda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
All you get in the BIOS is code pointing to files on the computer/partition whether it is UEFI or a Legacy install.
With pre-UEFI BIOS, what files? Did you mean to write sectors? Not counting PXE, or the F11 menu of which OP writes, all a Legacy/MBR era BIOS does following POST is choose a device and load the bootstrap code on that device's first sector.

Quote:
Time to do some serious reading.
Indeed! OP expects too much from his BIOS.
 
  


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